Best way to make systems more available "to the average Joe"?

[bobkoure]

First off, I love my Squeezebox and SqueezeCenter to death (so long as I haven't done something to break 'em)
But... I'm a geek. I've written drivers and firmware and applications - so the fact that I find installation dead easy means, well, nothing.

We've been getting more-than-occasional posts on the forums with fairly inflammatory titles. I read that as average-Joes pissed off that something isn't "just working" for them.
IMHO, the problem here is that they blame the product - and then tell their friends (you know, that old saw about if you like something you tell a friend, if you hate it you tell everyone you know).
I'm sure that SD and Logitech see this as a problem, but we have a group of very smart people here, who, so long as they remember that the rest of the world isn't necessarily as technically adept as they are, may actually have a brilliant idea or two as to what to do.

So... all that said, and, just to start:
It seems to me that maybe SD had ought to think about having some kind of "installer certification" , including training and testing - and a way for those certified installers to get "published" - maybe here on SD. I'd guess that'd help the "loves music, has money, but technically clueless" part of the market. (Note - I'm not saying that this is a brilliant idea - but it might help you think of one).

Or is this kind of thread a really dumb idea? (self-doubt creeps in... guess I'd have tried product marketing if I didn't have that problem :-) )

[autopilot]

I think it's a daft idea personally, sorry. Giving a product an 'installer certificate' would just make the product be perceived as being even more complicated to average Joe. It would not help sales, possibly harm them. And it certainly not help the 'average joe', maybe just sacre them. And how much would it cost to have someone install a $300 system?.

If people can's get on with the product, maybe they need to look elsewhere? Apple or Sono's for example - really simple to install and use, but at the expensive of functionality, customisability, flexibility and community plugins, etc etc. But most people cant admit to themselves that something might be a little difficult for them and goes over their head, then blame the product, and become rude and offensive on these forums, shouting at people who try to help... but i really think enough has been said about all this now.

Also, if someone is so technically incompetent that they need a professional installation, you could argue that they should not bother at all - as how are they going to cope with maintaining it, trouble shooting network issues and ripping and tagging music etc when the 'certified installer' is not around? Slimserver/Squeeeze Center is far from perfect, but I would in fact argue that the initial installation is not actually that hard, most problems people have are with their existing Wifi network, PC or badly tagged music, not the Squeezebox specifically.

My biggest fear has always been since the logitech acquisition that the products could be 'dumbed' down to give them broader audience. Although i would say that looking at Squeezecenter 7.0, thats not the case so far.

[pfarrell]

autopilot wrote:
> I think it's a daft idea personally.

I think its decent, and creative idea.

I would agree that "requiring" a certified installer is a daft idea.
But the world has many people who would like music and are technophobic.

Offering a list of 'qualified, honest and nice' folks to help with the
setup could be a nice way to widen the population.


> My biggest fear has always been since the logitech acquisition that the
> products could be 'dumbed' down to give them broader audience.

You mean that they might make the product usable enough that many folks
can enjoy the great features without being geeks themselves?


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

[autopilot]

You mean that they might make the product usable enough that many folks
can enjoy the great features without being geeks themselves?

No, i mean exactly what i said. The reduction of some functionality, in order to give the product more mass market appeal. Like i said, hopefully not happening.

[autopilot]

I think its decent, and creative idea.

Having the idea was decent and creative, thats what forums should be for (not all the bitching of late), it's the idea itself i dont agree with.

[pfarrell]

autopilot wrote:
> Pat Farrell;269514 Wrote:
>> You mean that they might make the product usable enough that many folks
>> can enjoy the great features without being geeks themselves?
>
> No, i mean exactly what i said.

Being "dumbed down" is how you make it widely usable.

Clearly you are not the target audience for the idea.


--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

[autopilot]

Being "dumbed down" is how you make it widely usable.

Clearly you are not the target audience for the idea.

Your right, but thats not why i dont think it would be good. Having a 'certified network engineer' help you out maybe, because the vast majority of peoples problems are network related and could have happened with any product.

[schatzy]

Well I can see that this "Idea" has some wide views.

I personally think that the idea is good and maybe better than good.

As a IT manager (windows/microsoft) I find that it is very easy to handle or figure out the where the problem lies with an SB not connecting or stuttering.

But having very little programing experience i have problems with making certain things work the way i would like and have asked questions of the much more knowledgeable here than myself, or in many cases read through the many threads covering a subject.

Maybe having a list of "Knowledgeable People" in certain "Subjects" (programing, networking etc.) for specific areas of the world would be a good idea.

I have a friend that is very knowledgeable with Linux. So i had him over for dinner one evening and we were able to get a Linux server up and running in less than an hour. I had tried for three days to understand how to make the changes needed in Linux to make SS6.5.x work with no luck. Well after that one hour i had learned a lot and now know what i need to do to assist someone else in getting a Linux server up and running.

If it had not been for the "Hands On" help I would probably given up and stayed with running SS/SC on a windows box.

Help for those technophobic people out there would be a very good idea IMHO.

Those that do not want the help don't need to ask for it. Those that need the help would have the ability to have someone "Hold Their Hand" if needed.

I am surely glad that there is such a Great and Wonderful forum here. It is part of what made the difference between buying an SB over all the competition.

Bobkoure - Good idea, some refining may or may not be needed.

Autopilot - you are free to have your opinion and i am glad to see that you also respect the opinion of others (this post and many others), and thanks for many of your other posts that have help myself and others.

Pfarelle - Again it is refreshing to see that people can have a difference of opinion but be respectful of others opinions. Also thanks for all of your posts that have helped myself and others.

Let me be the first to start a list by adding my own name to be able to help others in a hands on fashion. I live in Massachusettes USA and would be willing to travel (New England) or invite others to my home for some hand on help. Of course I do not have all the answers but I will help in any way I can even if that help needs to come from the forums.

Schatzy

[JimC]

First off, I love my Squeezebox and SqueezeCenter to death (so long as I haven't done something to break 'em)
But... I'm a geek. I've written drivers and firmware and applications - so the fact that I find installation dead easy means, well, nothing.

We've been getting more-than-occasional posts on the forums with fairly inflammatory titles. I read that as average-Joes pissed off that something isn't "just working" for them.
IMHO, the problem here is that they blame the product - and then tell their friends (you know, that old saw about if you like something you tell a friend, if you hate it you tell everyone you know).
I'm sure that SD and Logitech see this as a problem, but we have a group of very smart people here, who, so long as they remember that the rest of the world isn't necessarily as technically adept as they are, may actually have a brilliant idea or two as to what to do.

So... all that said, and, just to start:
It seems to me that maybe SD had ought to think about having some kind of "installer certification" , including training and testing - and a way for those certified installers to get "published" - maybe here on SD. I'd guess that'd help the "loves music, has money, but technically clueless" part of the market. (Note - I'm not saying that this is a brilliant idea - but it might help you think of one).

Or is this kind of thread a really dumb idea? (self-doubt creeps in... guess I'd have tried product marketing if I didn't have that problem :-) )

It's not a bad idea, but it really wouldn't solve the problem we'd eventually like to solve; that is, a simple to install and use whole home music system that can be tailored to your specific requirements.

Right now, the single biggest stumbling block is the fact that networking sucks, and we need a network to function. However, I can, without reservation, say that networking is LIGHT YEARS ahead of where is was 15 or so years ago (anyone remember GENOS and GENSH for Netware, for example?). As it continues to get easier to install, and--hopefully--more robust, it will get easier and easier to use our products.

We're already working on simplifying SqueezeCenter, improving SqueezeNetwork, etc. We just need the network infrastructure side to get easier too, and then we will be well positioned for broader success.

We're running a marathon, not a sprint, and while we may not be as fast as everyone would like, we're still getting miles under our feet. As we continue to broaden the product portfolio, improve the software, and see networking improve, I think you'll see that we are on the right track to deliver a broadly appealing consumer product; without having to compromise the core things that make this architecture great.


-=> Jim

[peejay]

I don't think the certification holds much water, but there are a number of organisations locally here who perform audio/video system installations for people who either don't know enough about it or have enough money not to be concerned with it themselves.
This idea seems to be a simple extension of that service, with extra skills from the installers around wireles/wired networks and software installation and configuration.
Ripping and tagging can be tedious for the meticulous, but generally I find when I buy a new album I simply pop it in the CD drive, and run EAC, which automatically populates the album/song detail tags for me. I check the tags quickly, and burn it to flac which results in the album being exactly where I want it on the file system, correctly tagged. I then run an album art down-loader for the art. This again is semi automated after configuring the software for the location of the songs.
Then click rescan in the SS interface and away you go. I expect you could even (I haven't researched this) trigger this from a daemon which watches for changes in your music file system.
Of course this describes the 'happy path' for loading music onto your system....there are other paths down which I have traveled as well.

So, to perform an installation to put all this in place for the non-technical is a reasonable idea, I think (I've done it myself for friends who see my SB and want one immediately).

There will always be something which comes up for software users for which they'll require assistance, but in the end this is common to all installed applications. Will this provide a satisfactory income stream for you if you focus just on Logitech streaming media devices, maybe not...
My two cents....