2nd class citizen

[Mnyb]

As i'm browsing more and more radio stations.
It's getting painfully obvius that we non US people, don't get the same SN service as US Citizens.
Thinking of Pandora and Slacker etc.

I want to start a poll but i don't see how to do it.

The main Questions would be.

*Should SN add new services that are not aviable wordlwide yes/no
*Should SN discontinue old services that's not aviable wordwide yes/no
*Should SN provide a spoofing service that make's everybody a us citizen yes/no

My main concern is that this IS in fact etnichal discrimination, no other words describes this better.
This will be a piontless excersize if:

*SN is very US centric nobody cares.
*SN's userbase is so small that the radio providers don't care.

If this is the case I can drop this idea and continue to sulk on my own. And hope things will improve over time.

Regards
Mikael

PS Ouch this was a very bitter post, I try be happier next post,I don't want to ruin the holliday spirit.

[toby10]

As i'm browsing more and more radio stations.
It's getting painfully obvius that we non US people, don't get the same SN service as US Citizens.
Thinking of Pandora and Slacker etc.

I want to start a poll but i don't see how to do it.

The main Questions would be.

*Should SN add new services that are not aviable wordlwide yes/no
*Should SN discontinue old services that's not aviable wordwide yes/no
*Should SN provide a spoofing service that make's everybody a us citizen yes/no

My main concern is that this IS in fact etnichal discrimination, no other words describes this better.
This will be a piontless excersize if:

*SN is very US centric nobody cares.
*SN's userbase is so small that the radio providers don't care.

If this is the case I can drop this idea and continue to sulk on my own. And hope things will improve over time.

Regards
Mikael

PS Ouch this was a very bitter post, I try be happier next post,I don't want to ruin the holliday spirit.

I understand your wanting all of the SB's features. But taking the attitude that "if I can't have it then no-one should have it" seems a bit childish to me. In reverse, some Internet Radio feeds (BBC comes to mind) are also region restricted and not available in the US. So Slim Devices should ban all BBC feeds worldwide to make it fair? Again, seems silly.

The real restrictions come from the record companies, EU & US trade agreements regarding copyright laws, lawyers in general.

If Slim Devices authored (or knowingly allowed) IP spoofing they would be opening themselves up to a BARRAGE of law suits.

But, again, I sympathise with you as you are indeed missing out on a lot of great content.

[SuperQ]

The real restrictions come from the record companies, EU & US trade agreements regarding copyright laws, lawyers in general.

Yea, I talked to the Pandora people a few months ago about this.

They pay one single company a royalty rate (RIAA? I forget) for their music streams in the US. This makes it very easy for them to operate. Count the number of tracks played to people with US IP addresses and they're done.

Now for example, in Germany they need to get a contract/license for every single record company that they could possibly play tracks for. It would be extremely complex and costly for them to do this. So they can't offer the service there. It's VERY annoying but that's the way it works.

[toby10]

Yea, I talked to the Pandora people a few months ago about this.

They pay one single company a royalty rate (RIAA? I forget) for their music streams in the US. This makes it very easy for them to operate. Count the number of tracks played to people with US IP addresses and they're done.

Now for example, in Germany they need to get a contract/license for every single record company that they could possibly play tracks for. It would be extremely complex and costly for them to do this. So they can't offer the service there. It's VERY annoying but that's the way it works.

Yup. Any hardware and/or software manufacturer wants their products as border free and restriction free as is possible. The more restrictions on the products uses = fewer/less sales of that product. It isn't Slim Devices going out of their way to restrict access cuz they only care about US sales. It's the governments, trade agreements, music industry, etc.. that are making this difficult and restrictive.

The original poster should be calling and writing those government & legal entities that are the actual cause of the problem. Posting in here is welcome, but will accomplish nothing as the problems exist outside of these forums.

[Mnyb]

There are counter parts for RIAA in most countries, in Sweden we have STIM thats collecting money from airplay and clubs and all other kinds of broadcast/venues.

How would ordinarie air play trough FM work if this were like SuperQ said ? no radio station would care to exist. Or do those dinosaurs make a difference between FM radio and internetradio ?

Yea, I talked to the Pandora people a few months ago about this.

They pay one single company a royalty rate (RIAA? I forget) for their music streams in the US. This makes it very easy for them to operate. Count the number of tracks played to people with US IP addresses and they're done.

Now for example, in Germany they need to get a contract/license for every single record company that they could possibly play tracks for. It would be extremely complex and costly for them to do this. So they can't offer the service there. It's VERY annoying but that's the way it works.

Swedish Radio has web based radio and that is working ?
Intresting experiment would be to se if its working in other countries, try P3 street just for fun:

mms://wm-live.sr.se/SR-P3Street-High

In the ends it's ultimately a loss for the record companies, as the alternative is free but illegal use of their products. They are trying the same scheme in mp3 sales, splitting the market in regions and charching more for the files. Amazon for example is not selling mp3's to Sweden ? There are other wendors that charge more for the same thing here ?

Thanks for you input now I'm off to shop some DRM free flac's from Magnatune. They have sane bussines methods. I vote with my money it's very effective in the end.

[damian.duffy]

[QUOTE=Mnyb;253132]If this is the case I can drop this idea and continue to sulk on my own. And hope things will improve over time.QUOTE]

I'll join in the sulk with you! Of course I've been using Pandora on the internet by letting on to be in America and would pay the $38 if I could.
I suppose that's a question - since Pandora doesn't seem to actually check can I get an American friend to pay the fee and then use it here?

[Mnyb]

don't they check player IP ? they sure check the IP when you try to join, have to join TOR or DOLD then.

[peterw]

SC7 presents a nice opportunity for alternate web music services. Since SC7 makes all the SqueezeNetwork services available while you're connected to your own SC7 host, many users will probably never connect directly to SqueezeNetwork. Any alternate music service could easily write a SqueezeCenter plugin for their service -- without having to sign any agreements with Logitech. This is really nice for the user... potentially at Logitech's expense, as I certainly expect they're getting some revenue from the premium services on SqueezeNetwork like Rhapsody.

I guess you could argue that's "second class" service, but it's far better than closed systems like Sonos. Heck, thanks to Greg Brown, Sirius radio subscribers had access to Sirius through their Squeezeboxes for more than a year (IIRC) before the lawyers, developers, and PR flacks at Sonos got around to providing any Sirius support on Sonos. Maybe you'd call that third class service... :-)

-Peter

[Mnyb]

Peterw thats a good example off why i choosed this plattform for streaming music, I do loathe closed solutions that is third class :-)

Back OT, I'm only a little aggitated because I paid the same price for the same product as everybody else,the SN service was included in the purchase, which gives that I have the rigth to the same service as everybody else.
I ordered from the website while it still was slimdevices.

A lower price and big Disclaimer, would have fixed that.
It sure locks like you get the same player/service, there's probably a fine print hidden somewere ;-)

A bigger questions is should one give away money to people with these bussines methods ? Its the same as when you buy fairtrade or "green" products vs anything else.
You migth get a very good product/service but is it rigth ?

A very strange factor is that this is completely random ? I can listen to a lot off stations from a lot off countries and here many artists etc.
Why would some services limit the same song to US only. Is it because Music on demand services are treated different than a radio station, or coincidence ?

[JimC]

There are counter parts for RIAA in most countries, in Sweden we have STIM thats collecting money from airplay and clubs and all other kinds of broadcast/venues.

How would ordinarie air play trough FM work if this were like SuperQ said ? no radio station would care to exist. Or do those dinosaurs make a difference between FM radio and internetradio ?

Yes, but FM broadcast has a separate structure almost everywhere in the world. Other forms of music playback/distribution (like internet radio or web-based music services) are governed by a different set of rules.

In the ends it's ultimately a loss for the record companies, as the alternative is free but illegal use of their products. They are trying the same scheme in mp3 sales, splitting the market in regions and charching more for the files. Amazon for example is not selling mp3's to Sweden ? There are other wendors that charge more for the same thing here ?

Thanks for you input now I'm off to shop some DRM free flac's from Magnatune. They have sane bussines methods. I vote with my money it's very effective in the end.

I agree, this is all a big huge mess for consumers. But, in the end, it is the rights holders that determine the use for the material. The most progressive artists and record labels are embracing a DRM-free model, with only minimal rights restrictions, but they are still the vast minority. The good news is that it is a growing trend.

As far as SqueezeNetwork is concerned, we are diligently pursuing music opportunities around the globe. It happens that the U.S. has the most services operating, but that will change over the next few years. We're so confident of this that we've already invested in hosting a SqueezeNetwork server array in Europe and will continue to grow our capabilities as we sign Europe-based services over time.


-=> Jim