Developers interested in taking over some of my plugins ?

[erland]

I'm not sure exactly where to post this, so I'll start by posting it in the developers forum.

I've lately felt that all my existing 10 third party plugins takes too much time to maintain and keep developing. The problem with this is that I don't get enough time to develop new plugin ideas I like to investigate.

So I now feel that I have the following alternatives:

1.
The current plugins will stay as they are with the current functionality and I'll just provide bug corrections. Some of the plugins will probably also be retired in this scenario.

2.
Someone takes over one or several of the plugins so I can concentrate on new stuff and learn/providing information to the person that is taking over the development.

3.
I make patches for SqueezeCenter for the most used functionality and it gets included in SqueezeCenter. This will require a lot of work, so this alternative is only an option is someone at Logitech is ready to spend some time discussing which functionality that would be interesting and how to design/implement the patches. I will not do this without this help from someone at Logitech. Earlier tries with this alternative has always resulted in "provide the patch first and we will discuss it later when we have time", so if this still is the case I'm not interested in this alternative.

I could silently just choose alternative 1, but I thought it would be a good idea to give any interesting developer the chance first. I would really like the plugins to be developed further with new functionality, but this will probably not happen if I have to do everything myself.

The plugins in question and their current status are:

Custom Browse
Makes it possible to configure custom browse menus using XML and SQL statements.
Status: Upgraded to SC7
Complexity: High

Custom Scan
Implements framework for custom scanning modules. The most used scanning module makes it possible to scan tags not supported by the SqueezeCenter scanning module and store them in the SqueezeCenter database. The scanned tags are usable through the Custom Browse and SQL Playlist plugins. Scanning modules to retrieve information from lastfm.com and amazon.com are also included.
Status: Upgraded to SC7 but needs major refactoring to improve the performance.
Complexity: Medium

Custom Skip
Makes it possible to configure a skip filter that skips songs that matches the filter before they are played.
Status: Upgraded to SC7
Complexity: Medium

Database Query
Makes it possible to run SQL statements from the SqueezeCenter web interface and return the result as CSV, XML or displayed directly in web interface. Main purpose it to be able to extract information for reports or make it simple to look at the contents of the database.
Status: Upgraded to SC7
Complexity: Medium

Dynamic Playlist
Contains base functionality to implement dynamic playlists such as those provided by Random Mix. The playlists are implemented in separate plugins (for example SQL Playlist) and all the playlist handling is provided by the Dynamic Playlist plugin.
Status: Upgraded to SC7
Complexity: Medium

Multi Library
Makes it possible to divide the SqueezeCenter music library in several virtual sub libraries. The virtual libraries could be used in the Custom Browse or SQL Playlist plugin.
Status: Upgraded to SC7
Complexity: Medium

Random Playlist
Same functionality as Random Mix but also makes it possible to exclude genres while Random Mix only allows to include genres. Requires Dynamic Playlist to work.
Status: Not upgraded to SC7, will be retired unless someone takes over it. The same functionality already exists in SQL Playlist.
Complexity: Low

Remove Played Songs
Implements an option to remove songs from the current playlist as soon as they have been played.
Status: Not upgraded to SC7, will be retired unless someone takes over it.
Complexity: Low

SQL Playlist
Makes it possible to create dynamic smart playlists based on SQL statements. User friendly user interface abstracts the SQL statements from the end user. Requires Dynamic Playlist to work.
Status: Upgraded to SC7
Complexity: Medium

TrackStat
Makes it possible to rate tracks directly in SqueezeCenter and implement handling to make statistic information such as ratings, play counts and last played time to survive a SqueezeCenter full rescan. Also implements integration modules to import/export ratings from iTunes, Amarok, MusicIP. Requires Dynamic Playlist and Custom Scan to get full functionality.
Status: Upgraded to SC7 but needs major refactoring to make it easier to maintain.
Complexity: Medium

So if you are interested in taking over or helping with development of any of these plugins, please post here or send me a private message or e-mail. If Logitech is interested in including some of the functionality in SqueezeCenter that's of course also very interesting, so post if that's the case.

I'm afraid none of the plugins besides the "Remove Played Songs" plugin are simple, all the rest contains quite a lot of code. So if you are interested, be prepared to learn all this code.

I also feel that none of the plugins has the correct design/implementation to fit as they are in the standard SqueezeCenter bundle. The major problems are that they contain too many options/configuration parameters and many executes SQL directly instead of going through the object based schema approach used by SqueezeCenter. However, I think this will be possible to solve in most cases, it just require some work.

Note!!!
I don't want the end users point of view in this thread, so if you aren't a developer interesting in taking over some plugin or you don't work for SlimDevices/Logitech, please don't post your opinion here.

[vrobin]

Hi Erland,

I don't know if you've chosen the best moment to make such an announcement, but there's not much responses to your message. Maybe people there, are still on holidays .

It's sad that you can not continue to maintain the whole set of plugins but I understand your point of view too well... free time is precious and when fun hacking is getting boring like a work it's beginning to be difficult to continue.

I can't make promises or take the responsibility of a plugin in its entirety, but I'll be glad to help/co maintain custom browse and custom scan as It's the plugins I mainly use.
I may not develop new features but could work on bug fix and future SC compatibility. As you know these two plugins are closely related to the xml/taging framework I'm working on (things have slowed by this side because of a load of work, but it's still progressing slowly but constantly and surely).

I hope you'll have other answers and propositions. Maybe basic plugins like "multi library" should be integrated in SC and maintained by sd/logitech but I thought some of your plugins are dependent each others (isn't multi lib working only with custom browse?).

I don't know your plugins enough but it could also be possible that another way to go could be to fusion/simplify/rewrite some of them together under the responsibility of sd/logitech.

To be continued...

Robin

[erland]

I can't make promises or take the responsibility of a plugin in its entirety, but I'll be glad to help/co maintain custom browse and custom scan as It's the plugins I mainly use.
I may not develop new features but could work on bug fix and future SC compatibility. As you know these two plugins are closely related to the xml/taging framework I'm working on

Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate any help I can get. Help with debugging and providing patches for problems has always been very welcome and will also be welcome in the future. My feeling is that if someone should take over the main responsibility for the plugins it should be someone that is ready to also add new functionality.

I hope you'll have other answers and propositions.

Me too.
Independent if I get more answers or not, I'm starting to think that it might be a good idea to put the source code somewhere where everyone can access it. Maybe Google Code or Sourceforge or something similar.

Maybe basic plugins like "multi library" should be integrated in SC and maintained by sd/logitech but I thought some of your plugins are dependent each others (isn't multi lib working only with custom browse?).

Multi Library handles the data and managment part and Custom Browse offers the user interface. If included in SC the SC browse mechanisms would need to be changed to take the virtual libraries into account. I think this would be a pretty large job, but I'm not completely sure.

However, I doubt multi library will ever be included in SC. I think the opinions from the developers when multiple library or even multiple music folder has been requested so far, has been been that this adds complexity that may not be a good idea.

I don't know your plugins enough but it could also be possible that another way to go could be to fusion/simplify/rewrite some of them together under the responsibility of sd/logitech.

Yes, that was pretty much what I meant with alternative 3 in my initial post.

[Philip Meyer]

>However, I doubt multi library will ever be included in SC. I think the
>opinions from the developers when multiple library or even multiple
>music folder has been requested so far, has been been that this adds
>complexity that may not be a good idea.

I think multiple music folders were planned for a future release of SC. I can see that happening (I thought about trying to create a patch to do it myself, as it can't be that tricky to have an array of music folder paths, rather than a single entry). I believe I raised an enhancement request to be able to only rescan for new and changed music in a single music folder, thus significantly reducing rescan times, and the reply was that that was the long-term intention.

I think it was also muttered that multiple personas were a future possibility (not just collections of songs into libraries - account settings such as LastFM user, etc would be stored in a grouping). I believe the intention was to have multiple databases or SC instances that the user could choose from.

Phil

[vrobin]

Hi Erland. Sorry for not answering earlier, but I was overseas last week and had to prepare the travel before.

It's a pity no other responses came from logitech/sd. Did you try to write them directly? (they could have missed this post)

Thanks for the offer, I really appreciate any help I can get. Help with debugging and providing patches for problems has always been very welcome and will also be welcome in the future. My feeling is that if someone should take over the main responsibility for the plugins it should be someone that is ready to also add new functionality.

I agree with you, that's why I described what was the limit of my offer. I also tried to make a proposition I could respect, not some fancy words in the wind.

Me too.
Independent if I get more answers or not, I'm starting to think that it might be a good idea to put the source code somewhere where everyone can access it. Maybe Google Code or Sourceforge or something similar.

I agree again, for collaborative work, a good toolbox is a good starting point. Doing this, you don't totally loose control as you can keep the control of the repository and check what's getting in or not.

Multi Library handles the data and managment part and Custom Browse offers the user interface. If included in SC the SC browse mechanisms would need to be changed to take the virtual libraries into account. I think this would be a pretty large job, but I'm not completely sure.

However, I doubt multi library will ever be included in SC. I think the opinions from the developers when multiple library or even multiple music folder has been requested so far, has been been that this adds complexity that may not be a good idea.


Yes, that was pretty much what I meant with alternative 3 in my initial post.

You confirm what I think. Your plugins can't easily be separated. That's why the third alternative would be a good one :-/. I was talking about multi-library because I think it's the simplest one and it's also the more "easy/user friendly/needed by many" plugin.

I mean:
- It's *just* a way to separate different type of music (easy)
- Unlike classical evolved browsing, multi library should be something nearly everyone needs (to separate wife and husband music, or adult and teeanager music, badly tagged internet mp3 music and well ripped audio cd music (asked for by many)
- Just declare this directory adult music and this directory child music, and it's ok (user friendly)

[erland]

I've decided that since there wasn't more interest, the current plugins will stay as they are with the current functionality and I'll continue to provide bug corrections and small enhancements requests when I have the time.

If someone likes to contribute and just didn't notice this thread before, the source code of all my plugins has now been moved to the following Google Code project:
http://code.google.com/p/erlandplugins/

Besides the code, all previously registered feature requests has also been moved to the Google Code project, if you are missing something please register it at http://code.google.com/p/erlandplugins/issues

So, if any third party developer or even Logitech would like to help maintaining, extending or correcting bugs in any of my plugins this is now possible. If anyone is interested in getting more involved and like some more information regarding the internals and the functionality the plugins provide, just let me know.

I'll give svn write access to anyone that likes to contribute and also has done some previous work related to Perl, SlimServer or SlimServer Plugins. So if you have the knowledge and are interested in helping with the plugin development, please let me know.

The iPeng related work I've done recently in my plugins isn't affected by the above mentioned decision, I still plan to continue extending this part of the plugins.

[Philip Meyer]

Hi Erland,

>I'll give svn write access to anyone that likes to contribute and also
>has done some previous work related to Perl, SlimServer or SlimServer
>Plugins. So if you have the knowledge and are interested in helping
>with the plugin development, please let me know.

I may try to dabble in the code and apply updates to some of the issues, although time is short for me at the moment, with a young baby to entertain.

Could you give me write access?

Phil

[erland]

I may try to dabble in the code and apply updates to some of the issues, although time is short for me at the moment, with a young baby to entertain.

Could you give me write access?

You will need a Google Account, if you don't already have one you will have to register one here with your own e-mail address:
https://www.google.com/accounts/Login

(you don't have to register a gmail address, you should be able to use your current e-mail address)

When you have a Google Account, just send me the Google Account as a PM or mail and I'll add you.

[pippin]

If I can be of any help regarding the iPeng side of this, please let me know.

[Volition]

Hi Erland,

And all those who are wishing to get these plugins included as logitech plugins in future. so that Erland can free up his time to do stuff he loves. I'm most likely jumping the gun. But feedback would be great.

Time to throw round some ideas.

Firstly we need to open the communication lines with logitech. Is that by email to logitech support or whoever.

With that in mind we need to get the community behind it. So perhaps we start a thread, and then to help with the numbers of users getiting behind this put links and a brief description of the problem on your actual plugin option pages or where users can see them and then perhaps petition it.

I dunno. But i'd love to see these plugins develop, i think that those in the community who do such great work as Erland need to get some support. And there is a large part who'd love to but just don't have the skills. such as myself. So how do we keep such great plugins going.

Without the plugins SC is not a tenth of the program it is.