QNAP TS-109pro powered by automobile?

[rst6616]

I have just received the Qnap109pro. My main use for this device is to server music files to my mp3 player (Squeezebox3). This works perfectly with one simple ethernet connection between these two devices with the only other connection necessary being both devices powered through the household AC. Both devices use a external 110VAC to DC power transformer to power them. The mp3 player converts 110VAC to 5v DC (1amp) and the Qnap converts 110VAC to 12v DC (3amp).

One idea in order to use this in an automobile is as follows:
Use the 12v DC output of the automobile into an external 12DC-110VAC converter. Then use a battery backup UPS from the converter to supply power to the Qnap and the Squeezebox.

The Qnap manual (pg 86 under section 3.8.4) gives a list of compatible UPS's. It says that if you purchase a compatible UPS with a USB interface, it will provide the power up/down protection needed.

So when turning the car's ignition turns on or off(simulating a power failure), the output of the emergency power supply UPS can sense this and allow enough time delay to properly turn on/off power to the Qnap/Squeezebox devices.

Is this idea possible? Would these power conversions generate too much electrical noise to the final audio signal? Is there a better way?

[RichardEvans]

Humm.....

I have my doubts about using slimserver in a car.

Apart from the shutdown issues, I'm not sure that having to point a remote controll at a Squeezebox is exactley ideal while driving. Also I'm not sure how badly bumps in the road would affect a spinning hard drive, that may not be designed to be bumpd around while in use. Finally there is the issue of ventilation around the Qnap, which is not meant to be tucked away in an enclosed space.

I would be more inclined to search for a system that is designed for in car use. If such a system does not yet exist, well then hopefully somebody will come up with one within a few years. I suppose one posibility that may be available rite now would be an MP3 compatible CD multi changer. That could store many hours worth of music. Than again an IPod type device costing less than a Squeezebox/Qnap would store several Gigabytes, and would probably also support AAC encoing, and I think you would find that 128k AAC would sound more than good enough for a car stereo system.

Richard.

[mrfantasy]

There's plenty of stuff out there about Car PCs--usually Mini-ITX boards and direct 12v power supplies (for example, http://www.mp3car.com/). I'd be wary of using an unmodified Qnap since I doubt it's engineered for use in moving vehicles. But if you did, I also wouldn't use a power inverter--a simple 12v connection directly from the car battery should power it just fine. Yeah, it will shut down hard, but I figure people do this all the time to them. The Squeezebox doesn't really have a shutdown procedure, so getting a 12v-5v DC-DC adapter would do the trick here too.

But, yeah, I'd probably recommend a custom car PC in the trunk over the Qnap.

[rst6616]

Thanks for the replies. I have thought about using a 12V DC to 12V/5V DC converter but the Qnap manual warns about a very long hard disk powerup checking procedures (chkdsk like?) after abnormally shutting down. This is why I thought the UPS time delay idea had merit.

I agree that the Qnap is not engineered to be operated in an automobile. But then again neither are most mini-itx systems or laptops designed for long term bouncing around either. Of course I thought that I would heavily surround the Qnap in foam and rig some air inlet/outlet for proper ventilation.

Yes, there is no argument that this is idea is a lot of trouble. And I am quite willing to give up if a decent solution is not available. I have already tried an ipod solution and find this system wanting.
The ipod's main disadvantages are:
1) Almost impossible to see the album/artist/song names during each song on the tiny screen and the screen light stays dim unless retouched.
2) Changing to a different playlist/artist/album/song is way easier on the squeezebox using the remote
3) The squeezebox is way more visible.
4) The squeezebox remote control is more versitile and safer to use as long as you use the remote quickly without taking your eyes of the road. I mainly like to set my music on completely random playing and only hit the next button when I am not in the mood for the current song. I also like to easily read the name of the current song playing.

I welcome any suggestions or opinions on how you might accomplish this or even if you think I should give it up.

[RichardEvans]

A few more points that came to mind.

If you are going to surround the Qnap in foam, then that would affect the ventilation. However perhaps you might be able to solve the ventilation problems by adding a 12volt fan.

I also think the idea of putting it in the boot/trunk is better than putting it in the glove box. In the glove box there wouldn't be much space for the heat to be disipated.

Perhaps it would be worth hunting around for a mini ITX device rather than using a Qnap. Such a device might be more flexible from the point of view of automatic shutdown. Another post here a few monts ago talked about an ITX device with the auto shutdown connected to a button on the front of the unit. This has me thinking, perhaps replacing the switch with a relay could be used to trigger the shutdown when the power is switched off. Unfortunatly the web page about his system seems to be no longer available. It was at http://freespace.virgin.net/mick.webb/index.htm.

I think I would suggest some searching for info. about mini ITX devices. It might also be easier to provide ventilation for such a device.

I would also suggest that if you run the system directly from the cars 12v supply, then you should add some filtering, probably using a coil and capaciter, to remove any nasty ingnition spiked etc. Also bear in mind that the car power supply can go up as high as about 14v. So check that the device you use can handle this, if not then perhaps add in some sort of voltage regulator.

Another idea. Presumably your emergancy power source, would only be needed to stop the Qnap from crashing when the voltage drops as you turn the engine over using the starter. As far as shutting down when you leave the car, you could perhaps design a simple circuit that activates the shutdown when the accessories switch has been switched off for a few minutes, but allows the unit to be powered directly from the car battery during the few minutes before and during shutdown.

Then again you might prefur the startup shutdown to be controlled by a seperate switch, rather than by the accessories. That way he unit wouldn't end up being shut down every time you got out of the car for a few minutes.

Just a few thoughts. Perhaps you could let us know whether you manage to fix the problems, as a hard drive system for in car use is an interesting idea, that I might be interesten in trying some day.

Richard.

[mrfantasy]

First, I know there are standard car stereos out there with an iPod interface, that display track info on the stereo's display. If that's your main issue, that may be the simplest fix. These stereos also let you control the iPod from the front panel.

I can understand wanting the Squeezebox, though. Mp3Car.com sells ruggedized cases (http://store.mp3car.com/category_s/47.htm) for mini-ITX boards, and it looks like they have regulated DC-DC supplies to deal with unclean car power. You might be able to adapt cases and power supplies for the Qnap.

I also had the idea of mounting the Squeezebox remote either on the wheel or in a place where it could be reached easily. This might involve reorienting the IR emitter or using an IR repeater to get the signal to the SB. Bonus points if you power the remote from the car battery!

[RichardEvans]

Bonus points if you power the remote from the car battery!

That would only require a small voltage regulator.

Richard.

[Ian_F]

How about considering something like this? http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products...3BT/index.html

If you have a general browse around the ICE stuff on their site there are plenty which may suit your needs better.

[rst6616]

Thanks for all your suggestions! I have been reading over at mp3car.com for solutions. I am pretty sure that somewhere in it's vast forums, the answer is there. The only problem is finding it. It seems that most people who are trying something like this use a dc-dc converter. Two good sites referenced were:

http://www.carnetix.com/regulators/h...coose_psu.html
http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php...&printable=yes

These are definately worth a read. They seem to have solutions, but I don't know if I would be able to adapt their solutions to the Qnap. All of the solutions I have seen so far are for mini-atx boards and laptops. Even so this stuff is still a little complicated. If I am able to figure this out, I will make sure I update you all. Thanks, Ron

[RF Dude]

Look at this page for raw DC-DC converters:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/dc-dc-...enclosed.shtml

Even for 12V output, a DC-DC converter in a car would be recommended.

RF Dude