Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ?

[omega]

Hi, everyone !

I have found a big problem with SB3 / slimerver Audio!

The first audio track that´s being played after SB3 power on always sounds better ! Or more "High END"

If i select another track / CD or play the same track again (Pressing PLAY on remote)
The Quality of the musik gets much more reduced !!!

It´s like some high frequencys disappears.
The Music sounds "flatter" or less "Room" like moving from "High END" To "Hi FI"

The reduced frequencys is of course easier to hear on different Audio recordings.

Try This at you own system !

1. Power on your SB3.
2. Select a good recording, start to play. (My sound is now "High END")
3. Select another track on the same album (The sound is now reduced "Hi FI")
4. Select the same recording / track that you started with in step 2. (The sound is still reduced "Hi FI")
5. Press the pause on SB3 remote.
6. Power OFF your SB3.
7. Power on your SB3.
8. Press "Now Playing on SB3"
9. Press Pause, Now the sound is back on "High END again !!!!

Please try this on various music, when your know where to listen you start to hears this "Bugg" easy!

Listen in the "Reverb region" / High frequencys.

You have to A/B listen for a while to start hear this !!

I stream Flac as Wave but if i stream Flac i can hear this to.

I have the Vol setting to "FIXED" in slimserver -> Player setting -> Audio.

There is the same problem on "Wired" or "Wireless"

There is the same problem on Optical & Coax.

I Have only tried this with External DAC.


My friend hear this also om my system.
He also gets the same result on his system.
(External Dac, Quad ESL, etc)

We both have very good "Hi End" Gear / revealing speakers etc. external DAC

It´s easier to hear on my system because i have a "A universally applicable omnidirectional tweeter"

My system:

SB3 (Latest firmware and Slimserver) I am Only playing .Flac files done with EAC /Plextor
Digital Out from SB3 -> Musical Fidelity X-Dac v3 -> Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 Tube Buffer -> Cambridge AZUR 840A Amp.
Speakers: Chario Hyper 2000 Tower Reference + Elac CL 4Pi Plus (A universally applicable omnidirectional tweeter)
SB3 Linear power supply.


Best Regards !

/Mats :-)

[ezkcdude]

Hmmm...Maybe you have the fastest case of listening fatigue ever.

[omega]

Hi ezkcdude,

This has nothing to do with listening fatigue...
I can go back to the "High End" any time, Pressing the "PAUSE" on the remote, and Power OFF / ON the SB3 as described above.

Does´s my friend suffer from listening fatigue to ?
He hear the same thing as i do, here on my system and at home at his place..

Have you tried at your own system?

Don´t get me wrong, But i Think not all people will hear this.
difference in hearing, Not so revealing speakers etc.

Make sure you have the "Fixed" volume setting on your SB3.

Best Regards!

/Mats :-)

[amcluesent]

You claim that an
(X) audible
( ) measurable
( ) hypothetical

improvement in sound quality can be attained by:
( ) upsampling
( ) non-oversampling
( ) increasing word size
( ) vibration dampening
( ) bi-wiring
(X) replacing the external power supply
( ) using a different lossless format
( ) decompressing on the server
( ) removing bits of metal from skull
( ) using ethernet instead of wireless
( ) inverting phase
( ) reversing “polarity” of resistors
( ) ultra fast recovery rectifiers
( ) installing bigger connectors
( ) installing Black Gate caps
( ) installing ByBee filters
( ) installing hospital-grade AC jacks
( ) defragmenting the hard disk
( ) running older firmware
( ) using exotic materials in cabinet
( ) bronze heatsinks
( ) violin lacquer
( ) $500 power cords
(X) a universally applicable omnidirectional tweeter

Your idea will not work. Specifically, it fails to account for:
( ) the placebo effect
(X) your ears honestly aren't that good
( ) your idea has already been thoroughly disproved
( ) modern DACs upsample anyway
( ) those products are pure snake oil
( ) lossless formats, by definition, are lossless
( ) those measurements are bogus
( ) sound travels much slower than you think
( ) electric signals travel much faster than you think
( ) that's not how binary arithmetic works
( ) that's not how TCP/IP works
( ) the Nyquist theorem
( ) the can't polish a turd theorem
( ) bits are bits

You will try to defend you idea by:
(X) claiming that your ears are “trained”
(X) claiming immunity to psychological/physiological factors that affect everyone else
( ) name-calling
( ) criticizing spelling/grammar

Your subsequent arguments will probably appeal in desperation to such esoterica as:
( ) jitter
( ) EMI
( ) thermal noise
(X) quantum mechanical effects
( ) resonance
( ) existentialism
( ) nihilism
( ) communism
( ) cosmic rays

And you will then change the subject to:
(X) theories are not the same as facts
( ) measurements don't tell everything
(X) not everyone is subject to the placebo effect
( ) blind testing is dumb
( ) you can't prove what I can't hear
( ) science isn't everything

Rather than engage in this tired discussion, I suggest exploring the following factors which are more likely to improve sound quality in your situation:
(X) room acoustics
( ) source material
( ) type of speakers
( ) speaker placement
( ) crossover points
( ) equalization
( ) Q-tips
( ) psychoanalysis
( ) trepanation

[darrenyeats]

Mats,
It isn't clear from the other posts whether anyone has bothered to listen for what you described.

However, when I listened I couldn't hear this effect personally.

I think you'll find a lot of people here use external DACs with fixed digital output level, no bitrate limiting and no replay gain, Darren
--
Monarchy CLD-M401 transport -> Sony DAS-703ES DAC -> Krell KAV-300i -> PMC AB-1 (DIY room treatment and supports)

[omega]

Hi amcluesent,

Whay are you pepole not beliving me?

This make me sad.
Have any of you tried the "PAUSE" Power OFF / ON fix?

I came just from my listening room,
I can hear this on almost any track!

My girlfriend hear this to..

And my Friend, so that´s makes 3 of us now!

PLEASE TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN SYSTEM!!!

Make sure you sit "In the Sweet spot"

I Have my speakers "toed in" to the lisening area.

My SB3 digital out is always on, "Setting"

If anyone reading this live in SWEDEN (Stockholm) or planning visiting.
I can demo this at my place..

My friend and i are going to measure this,

Because it´s som much in the higher frequencys this gets reduced


Best Regards!

/Mats :-)

[omega]

Hi Again!

I forget one thing,

"Default" i think the SB3 Optical output sounds more clearer / Better than the coaxial.

But i have modded the "Coaxial" output with a digital "isolation transformer" and now the Coaxial output is the best digital output.

You easiest hear "the bugg" from the Optical output if you have a default digital undmodded Coaxial on your SB3.

I have done a/b listening test allt day, there is some thing that´t is wrong. (The "PAUSE" fix works every time!)

I wounder way the "PAUSE" OFF / ON "PAUSE" thing works?
Mabye something with the digital clocks from SB3 to DAC?

Something with the digital buffer?

Strange, but i realy love the "High end sound" :-)

I Have tried with wave files, The same problem is there to..

Best Regards to all of you!

/Mats :-)

[hammer65]

Hi, Omega!
Thanks for a nice demo at your home.
I was really sad to discover that a nice product like the SB3 has a bug like the one you described in your thread.
I went home and tried my SB3 and heard the same difference in soundquality when I repeated the track again.
The first track always sound open and spacious. The soundquality is reduced from highend to something like regular hifi when repeating the same track again.
I'm using a separate DA-converter and have a modified squeezebox with a new powersupply and an outputtransformator on the digitalcoaxialoutput (using coax for digital transfer to my DAC).
I tried both with my Quad Electrostatic speakars and with my Stax headphones with the same result. The repeated track is lacking air and transparancy. After turning the unit off and on again the sound is clear and transparant again. You could even hear the difference on mono recordings, strange ????
Hope that someone has a solution to our problem and not only stupid comments like amcluesent.

//Hammer65

[seanadams]

Hi, Omega and Hammer65!

I find it fascinating that you both share a nearly identical writing style, that you both log in from the same IP subnet, and that hammer65 has chosen just this occasion to chime in with his first post to the forum. Are you twins and/or room mates?

Please do not troll our forum. On the off chance that this is not a troll (it can be quite hard to tell around here) I would suggest that you consider the placebo affect and apply some simple controls for it in your experiments. Good luck.

//Sean

[omega]

Hi seanadams.

Hammer65 is a friend of mine. (We work at the same Office)

We are not the same physical person,
Do you think we write this becasue it´t fun?

I found out the SB3 bugg, and i demostrated this at my home for Hammer65, then he found out the same problem at home.

Told him about my "Thread" here in the Forum.

My ISP is "Bredbandsbolaget", It´s one of the biggest ISP here inte sweden, I really dont know if Hammer65 have the same ISP?

Nearly identical writing style, is that identical?
I saw nearly to identical pepople today, they must be the same person ?! :-) Just a bad joke.

We propably share the same bad school English ?
We both are swedes and English is our second language.

But is´t there anyone reading this having the same problems as i and Hammer ?

Have you tried to listen , seanadams ?

There must be more than me and Hammer65 that is pure audiophils?
Running on simmular gear, external DAC etc?

PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!
PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!
PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!
PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!
PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!
PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!
PLEASE give this i try, It´s not placebo!

I think most people reading this don´t even try to listen.
They allready have make up their minds..
No this is not possible..

Later today i will try to Downgrade the SB3 to see if there is a problem in firmware / Slimserver.

Best Regards!

/Mats :-)