New DAC sorts out SB3

[opaqueice]

I do find it surprising that you can accept that different DACs sound different, but say that amplification is a solved problem... Surely DACs measure very much the same?

Both are solved problems in the sense that it's relatively easy to build them in such a way that they measure close to perfectly and sound identical. However that doesn't mean they're all built that way. The Benchmark is, but I don't know about the Naim. The SB3 DAC measures significantly worse than the Benchmark; I don't know if that's audible (I suspect not, and I've compared it to two other DACs - not including the Benchmark - and found it to be identical, but can't be sure).

In any case the important thing here is probably to believe you're listening to the best and therefore not worry about it, and the Benchmark is demonstrably among the best.

[P Floding]

Both are solved problems in the sense that it's relatively easy to build them in such a way that they measure close to perfectly and sound identical. However that doesn't mean they're all built that way. The Benchmark is, but I don't know about the Naim. The SB3 DAC measures significantly worse than the Benchmark; I don't know if that's audible (I suspect not, and I've compared it to two other DACs - not including the Benchmark - and found it to be identical, but can't be sure).

In any case the important thing here is probably to believe you're listening to the best and therefore not worry about it, and the Benchmark is demonstrably among the best.

I'd be shocked if anyone at all would have thought the measurable differences (in lab conditions) between an SB3 and any other playback source were possible to hear, say, 25 years ago.

I guess that must mean we didn't have a clue then, but now we really understand it all.. ;-)

I notice this is OT now, so that will be it from me on the subject of DAC sound quality.

[tomjtx]

Naim is expensive new, much more affordable second hand. The Transporter I tried at £1300 is not cheap. I'm sure I could find a £1300 CD Player that would better the performance of the TP.

I'm using a good quality Chord Chysalis interconnect, which although not expensive, is up there with the best.

Keith

Why would you be "sure" you could find a CDP that would better the TP at that price. Read stereophile's review, they seem to think it's one of the best playback/DACs at any price.

Why not give the TP a listen? You might like it

[sonofcolin]

Read stereophile's review, they seem to think it's one of the best playback/DACs at any price.

Really? I didn't get that impression. No wonder I failed English lit.

[CardinalFang]

I am not an Itunes user, but does "error correction" mean that it will do some type of interpolation/extrapolation when it finds an error? Conversely, EAC will slow down and reread many times until it either gets a good read or gives up. In the latter case, it tells you that it encountered errors.

Error correction means just that, the error is corrected and the data is as it should be. Error concealment happens far less frequently and requires interpolation between good samples and this is when EAC tries to re-read data.

My biggest problems with ripped CDs appear during playback when some tracks appear to overload DACs, or at least there are some errors being introduced by very high recorded levels in the digital data. I have one or two CDs that start to break up via my SB2/MF DACv3 combination on fast and loud transients, whereas the original CDs sound fine.

[totoro]

Error correction means just that, the error is corrected and the data is as it should be. Error concealment happens far less frequently and requires interpolation between good samples and this is when EAC tries to re-read data.

My biggest problems with ripped CDs appear during playback when some tracks appear to overload DACs, or at least there are some errors being introduced by very high recorded levels in the digital data. I have one or two CDs that start to break up via my SB2/MF DACv3 combination on fast and loud transients, whereas the original CDs sound fine.

I deal with that by setting the attenuation very high in my inguz configuration (16db!!!!!). That's what I had to do to make sure that clipping is very rare in my playback. Recent ecm records seem to be terrible this way.

[opaqueice]

I deal with that by setting the attenuation very high in my inguz configuration (16db!!!!!). That's what I had to do to make sure that clipping is very rare in my playback. Recent ecm records seem to be terrible this way.

Same here, although I found I had to set it to -20 to avoid clipping on the all-time worst track I've found so far: 2 of America's Most Wanted (by 2Pac Shakur in case you're shamefully ignorant). The current version of the DSP seems to deal relatively gracefully with clipping - it adjusts the volume down dynamically - so I keep it at -16 anyway.

[Skunk]

I deal with that by setting the attenuation very high in my inguz configuration (16db!!!!!). That's what I had to do to make sure that clipping is very rare in my playback. Recent ecm records seem to be terrible this way.

Hmm. Never knew you could set it so.

The volume on the remote seems like a better choice, or else you're unnecessarily limiting SNR on albums that don't need attenuation.

I try to have my analog volume set so that the digital volume ranges between 85 (clipped/loud cd's) and 100 (properly mastered).

[opaqueice]

Hmm. Never knew you could set it so.

The volume on the remote seems like a better choice, or else you're unnecessarily limiting SNR on albums that don't need attenuation.

I try to have my analog volume set so that the digital volume ranges between 85 (clipped/loud cd's) and 100 (properly mastered).

That doesn't work with Inguz - clipping will occur regardless of the SB volume setting. I suppose the reason is the DSP processes the raw file first, so if there's clipping (or simply not enough headroom) it will be exacerbated during the processing. After the processing it goes to the SB DAC, but at that point if it's clipped it's clipped regardless of volume.

On the other hand the attentuation setting in Inguz reduces the volume before DSP, thus avoiding any additional clipping there.

Actually, can someone explain to me why lowering the SB volume would help with clipping? I guess maybe if the number of sequential maxed out samples is pretty small (let's call that mild clipping) the DAC interpolation could smooth it out if the volume is below max, giving it has some headroom to work with. But if the clipping extends across many samples, I don't see why lowering the volume would help much. Is that right?

[CardinalFang]

I deal with that by setting the attenuation very high in my inguz configuration (16db!!!!!). That's what I had to do to make sure that clipping is very rare in my playback. Recent ecm records seem to be terrible this way.

I'm not using Inguz, but still get clipping or distortion during playback. It should be the same data as the CD since I have the digital output fixed, or is there some gain being added in the SB? I don't understand why through the SB I get clipping...