Yet another amplifier question.

[sam500]

Hi guys,
This is my first post to the forum so go easy.
I'm looking for an amp to complete my setup.
I'm using a SD Transporter (playing FLAC) as the source with a pair of Paradigm Reference 100 V.3 speakers.
I was going to go with a Lavry DA10, but apparently the onboard DAC of the Trasnporter is decent.
Any suggestions for an amp would be much appreciated. My budget is around $2500 for the amp.
The room is about 800 sq. ft.
When is or isn't a preamp necessary?
Thanks guys,
Sam
Berkeley, CA

[PhilNYC]

There are literally hundreds (thousands?) of amps out there, and what is "best" for you is very depenent on your personal tastes. So I would recommend that you hit a few local audio stores and listen to a few different setups (or better yet, if you have friends who are into this stuff, listen to their systems)...then ask this question again after giving some thoughts as to what you liked and what you didn't like.

Some basic questions:
- Are you interested in tubes (and all the accompanying costs and maintenance)? Or just solid state/class D?
- What kind of music do you like?
- What kind of volume to you usually listen?

Preamps are "necessary" if you have more than one non-digital source (eg. a tuner or a turntable) where you can't use the Transporter to select sources, or if you get an amp that has a low input sensitivity (and need the preamp gain to really drive the amp the way it was designed to be driven).

[PaulB]

Usually and eventually you will need a preamp, but considering the SDT's own volume control, I would get a Red Wine Audio Signature 30 (well under your budget) or better yet Signature 70 monoblocks (stretching the budget a bit). Either of those will let you have the cake and eat it: You get the musical warmth and clean power w/o immediate need for a good pre. An excellent chip amp such as Audio Sector or Scott Nixon will either come close or exceed the other's performance, depending on your priorities. An excellent SS amp such as Odyssey stereo or monoblock or FirstWatt will be impressive too, but I don't know if you can stand the sterility in the long run. That is, before you add a really good preamp.

My take on preamps is different from that of Phil (see above). I used to think the same about preamps: just a switching device and a volume control, even though more than once I heard about the need for matching impedance between amps and sources. Having been running sources directly to amps (a NAD CDP with volume control to Adcom amps, Alchemy DAC to Acurus amp with EV attenuators, Shanling SCDT200 to SET monoblocks, and most recently a squeezebox to Audio Sector Patek), I was not quite satisfied with the level of musicality that came out from the setup. Adding a SinglePower MPX3 preamp (initially a head-amp) has given me what I've been missing in all those years: a full, dynamic, extended, non-etchy highs, and fast musical representation. Otherwise, I agree with Phil: there are many good amps in the market for Sam to consider. I just picked those mentioned purely based on his requirement (no preamp) in conjunction with my own preference (if I were Sam). I still urge him to do his own research.

[sam500]

I will be hitting the local shops, but there I'll be restricted to the amps they have available to listen to. Any amps generally considered to be outstanding in my price range will give me a good place to start listening looking. Any suggestions?

In answer to your points:
Tubes don't particularly interest me. From what I've read it seems to get a really good quality tube amp, in general, costs bigger bucks than the solid state.

I listen to loud hard rock/heavy metal music (80's hair metal mostly) and not-so-loud clssical. I guess that's two extremes.

[michel]

I would go for the flying moles (yes, that's their name!). I recently heard a setup with SB3 fed into a Benchmark DAC1 driving the amps directly. Incredible accurate and natural sounding. If my Goldmund Mimesis 6 was not in so good a condition I would be tempted to go for those moles. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...oledadm100.htm

[PhilNYC]

My take on preamps is different from that of Phil (see above). I used to think the same about preamps: just a switching device and a volume control, even though more than once I heard about the need for matching impedance between amps and sources.

For the record, this is not what I think of preamps. My comment above was regarding when a preamp is "necessary"...for me personally, I am solidly in the camp that strongly prefers a good preamp in a system because of how it affects the sound. In my personal experience, I have found that with only minor exception, adding a good preamp to a system adds a great deal to the spacial-cues in a system's sonic presentation, and more often than not, adds a level of refinement to the sound that I strongly prefer. This has been true in my own system, where my Blue Circle amp's low input sensitivity really likes the higher output of a preamp, as well as in my experiences with systems using amps with higher sensitivity, such as Bryston, Pass Labs, Odessey, and my own Bel Canto-based system.

Having said that, I know more than one person who has heard my system using the Transporter directly to my amps that prefers it without a preamp...so it's very much a personal taste thing...

[PhilNYC]

Any amps generally considered to be outstanding in my price range will give me a good place to start listening looking. Any suggestions?

Well, obviously, as a dealer, I'm biased towards the brands that I sell...but beyond those, I think you should be looking at one of the prominent class D amps (eg. Bel Canto, NuForce, etc). In your price range, I think these types of amps are a really nice option to deliver a lot of decent power (which the Paradigms like). I'm not on the bandwagon that thinks these Class D amps are the end-all (yet), but I do think you have to start spending a lot more to get a traditional solid state amp to sound significantly better than these...

[sam500]

Ok, I've reassessed my funds. My limit is bumped to $7000 for amps.
I was reading about class D amps in a recent audio magazine and they recommended the Kharma MP150's, but in general nobody seemed to like class D due to the low pass filter cutting out some of the high freq sounds. Humming noises can also accur around 100 Hz apparently as well.
Anyway, so I'm not sure if I understand the difference between chip , solid state, transistor, tube.
Tell me if this is right:
A class A or B amp refers to whether the amp switches direction of something (the current???) for more efficient power usage. Class A/B/AB sound better than D because they allow a gradual switch and do not produce Pulse modulation.
Class A/B/AB/D can us solid state (semiconductors) or electronic transistors. They can also either use capacitors or tubes. Capacitors allow a sharper cut off than tubes???? There is some debate over which sound better, but tubes are said to have a warmer sound.

So that's my understanding so far. How much of it is right? Could someone help me put the finishing pieces in my puzzle?

So the amps that have been drawn to my attention are:
Class D: Kharma MP150 monoblocks $6800
Class AB: Parasound Halo JC 1 Monoblocks $6000
I'm going to try both of these tomorrow at the music store. Has anyone else used these? Any good?
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good tube amp in my price range to try out as well?

Thanks for all your help fellas,
Sam

[ezkcdude]

Your speakers retailed for $2200 new, and your going to spend 3X that amount on an amp? Speakers are by far the most important part of a system, and by far, have the most impact on sound. I would recommend sticking to your original amp budget ($2500 or less), and see how that works for you. If your system doesn't sound good enough, spend the other $4500 on better speakers. But, hey, it's your money. I can only assume your silly rich.

[tomsi42]

A class A or B amp refers to whether the amp switches direction of something (the current???) for more efficient power usage.
Class A/B/AB sound better than D because they allow a gradual switch and do not produce Pulse modulation.
Class A/B/AB/D can us solid state (semiconductors) or electronic transistors. They can also either use capacitors or tubes. Capacitors allow a sharper cut off than tubes???? There is some debate over which sound better, but tubes are said to have a warmer sound.

So that's my understanding so far. How much of it is right? Could someone help me put the finishing pieces in my puzzle?

So the amps that have been drawn to my attention are:
Class D: Kharma MP150 monoblocks $6800
Class AB: Parasound Halo JC 1 Monoblocks $6000
I'm going to try both of these tomorrow at the music store. Has anyone else used these? Any good?
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good tube amp in my price range to try out as well?

Thanks for all your help fellas,
Sam

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_A_amplifier for a description of the different amplifier types.

All classes have its benefits and disadvantages. I would not worry so much about the technology used; listen to the different choices out there - including cheaper amplifiers. As ezkcdude mentioned, the money might well be better spent on the speaker side.

Tom

PS. You haven't mentioned what you are using as an amplifier today.