Kim,
Did the Digital Lens improve the sound when used with the SB3 ? Do you already have the Big Ben ? Or have you already compared SB3 + Digital Lens vs SB3+Big Ben ?
I was going to get a Digital Lens but seeing your posts I am doubtful now (even though I am using 44.1/16 mainly now).
Do you have any mods on your SB3 ?
(sorry about the too many questions. You seem to be on the same path I am thinking of, except I dont want to spend that much)
Main
Wellborne Labs Power Supply -> SBT -> Zu Ash Coax -> TACT Digital Integrated Amp-> Zu Wax Speaker Cables -> Newform Research R630. Power Conditioning by Running Springs Audio Haley
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FLAC Files->TECLAST T51 Mp3 Player -> Silver Cables -> Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10
Kim,
Did the Digital Lens improve the sound when used with the SB3 ? Do you already have the Big Ben ? Or have you already compared SB3 + Digital Lens vs SB3+Big Ben ?
Do you have any mods on your SB3 ?
Prior to getting the SB3, I did extensive comparisons between the Lens and Big Ben (which I did already have). The Big Ben had several advantages - sounded better, supported up to 192/24, and was insensitive to the input device.
I did not do any critical listening with the SB3 and Lens. I had been using it with the Big Ben, and decided to see if the Lens I had in storage would work with the SB3. Since it didn't meet my needs (all my FLAC files are 48/16, upsampled from 44.1/16), I sold it.
Using the Big Ben with the SB3 is a significant improvement over the straight SB3 digital out. It's possible that internal SB3 mods would produce the same result, but I already had the Big Ben.
My only SB3 mod is a linear power supply. It was a nice improvement over the stock supply when using the SB3 digital outputs without the Big Ben. I haven't tried swapping the stock supply back in when using the Big Ben.
Yes Kim, this was an odd thing that stood out in the review. Clearly proves something is not right with the Lens. If the Big Ben sounds the same irrespective of player, cables etc. then it really isolates the jitter out. I will spring for one whenever I find a good price, Thanks for the reply.
Main
Wellborne Labs Power Supply -> SBT -> Zu Ash Coax -> TACT Digital Integrated Amp-> Zu Wax Speaker Cables -> Newform Research R630. Power Conditioning by Running Springs Audio Haley
Mobile
FLAC Files->TECLAST T51 Mp3 Player -> Silver Cables -> Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10
How do you use the Big Ben? Does it sit between the SB and the DAC?
It's between the SB3 and my TacT RCS 2.2X, which then feeds two TacT S2150 digital amps, which are actually the DACs. I'm using Toslink from the SB3 to BB, then AES/EBU to the TacT.
It's between the SB3 and my TacT RCS 2.2X, which then feeds two TacT S2150 digital amps, which are actually the DACs. I'm using Toslink from the SB3 to BB, then AES/EBU to the TacT.
Kim
Kim, shouldn't the Big Ben be the last in the chain between the RCS and the S2150 ?
Main
Wellborne Labs Power Supply -> SBT -> Zu Ash Coax -> TACT Digital Integrated Amp-> Zu Wax Speaker Cables -> Newform Research R630. Power Conditioning by Running Springs Audio Haley
Mobile
FLAC Files->TECLAST T51 Mp3 Player -> Silver Cables -> Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10
Kim, shouldn't the Big Ben be the last in the chain between the RCS and the S2150 ?
Well, theoretically yes. In fact, I could use two Big Bens.
To make a long story bearable, I've tried it both before and after the RCS and the system sounds best with the BB before the RCS.
It appears that the RCS, even though it is purely digital, is susceptable to input jitter due to the way the AD1896 sample rate converter works. This device is also why I upconvert my FLAC files from 44.1 to 48kHz. There's been much discussion of this on the various Yahoo TacT* groups.
I've also upgraded the pulse transformers in all the TacT gear to Scientific Conversions SC947-02 which seem to minimize jitter between the RCS and S2150s.
I've been wondering why the Vitec 67Z6700 was chosen for the Transporter since the measurements for the Scientific Conversions are about twice as good. I'm sure Sean has a good reason I haven't thought of.
If the Big Ben sounds the same irrespective of player, cables etc. then it really isolates the jitter out. I will spring for one whenever I find a good price, Thanks for the reply.
Umm, be careful what conclusions you derive from those reports. I've used Big Bens with several sets of equipment over some time, and can report that, indeed, the BB does an impressive job of isolating output from input jitter -- but whether or not that turns out to be an actual improvement depends on the quality of the source. What comes out of the Big Ben generally sounds like the Big Ben. For some sources (to my ears, in one setup feeding an Arcam AVR, a stock SB2 via either digital out with any power supply or an SB3 with the original switcher) that's an improvement. Once I started playing with an SB3 sipping from a good-quality linear 5V supply, two things happened: I realized that the SB3's digital out was good enough that I could clearly hear an improvement over the same SB3 fed by the switcher, and I realized that I liked the naked linear-fed SB3's coax outputs better than the output of the Big Ben. Once you get to, say, a Bolder-modified SB3, the Big Ben is clearly outclassed. You can even things up some by doing the keen one-cap mod Dan posted some months (years?) ago on Another List -- basically you just replace one of the BB's power supply filter electrolytics with an appropriate Blackgate, and that, believe it or not, cleans up the power the thing is being fed enough to be clearly audible, and to remove some of the scratchiness in its signature. But really, though I chose not to 'bay my BBs because they're still useful stabilizing particularly crappy consumer-equipment or computer S/PDIF streams and getting them comfortably into the ballpark of audiophilic, I wouldn't subject a really clean digital stream to a Big Ben, because the BB's democratizing effect would be operating in the wrong direction.
For example -- right out of the box, the Transporter is a remarkably good digital transport. I'm very impressed. I wouldn't run it through a Big Ben any more than I'd pee in a bowl of Daniel Boulud's soup.
... I realized that I liked the naked linear-fed SB3's coax outputs better than the output of the Big Ben. ... You can even things up some by .. replacing one of the BB's power supply filter electrolytics with an appropriate Blackgate, and that, believe it or not, cleans up the power the thing is being fed enough to be clearly audible, and to remove some of the scratchiness in its signature...
Since I was the one who reported that the Big Ben improved the digital outputs of the SB3, I should say at this point that my Big Ben has the mod mentioned above, as well as is running from an internal linear supply (from Welborne Labs) instead of the original switching supply.
I agree with the comment about the Transporter - in my view it is either a Transporter or an SB3 plus the Big Ben. Since I already had both of the latter, I don't get a Transporter :-(
jbm, Thanks for the post. It is great to read people's experience who are well-versed in the digital domain and specifically in the all digital path, like the way, Kim has it.
Can you tell us what specific mod of Bolder Cables you have on your SB ? Does it have the Bybees ?
I have the modded Elpac running off of a Balanced power conditioner right now for the past 2 or 3 weeks. The digital cable is a Sound Professionals Glass Toslink. I also have a Zu Wax, but the toslink seems to edges it out by a hair.
Main
Wellborne Labs Power Supply -> SBT -> Zu Ash Coax -> TACT Digital Integrated Amp-> Zu Wax Speaker Cables -> Newform Research R630. Power Conditioning by Running Springs Audio Haley
Mobile
FLAC Files->TECLAST T51 Mp3 Player -> Silver Cables -> Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10
I've been wondering why the Vitec 67Z6700 was chosen for the Transporter since the measurements for the Scientific Conversions are about twice as good. I'm sure Sean has a good reason I haven't thought of.
I'm not sure which measurements you're talking about but the Scientific Conversion parts were not the best I tried. I am aware that they have a great reputation but in my testing the vitec measured lower jitter - we tried several other makes as well. The other difficulty with SC is that while they're popular for aftermarket mods, it was very difficult to get commitments for production quantity parts from them (long lead times and they'd only take paypal!). I could have spent more time with their engineers trying to improve the performance, but it didn't look too hopeful. It's a small local company which obviously does not run their own fab for these things.... not a comfortable situation when we have to commit to a part for long term, volume production. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to try them again for other things though.
Can you tell us what specific mod of Bolder Cables you have on your SB ? Does it have the Bybees ?
I've been unable to bring myself to order Bybees. Perhaps I'm just not open-minded enough...
I have his digital-only mod on an SB3, and some flavor of his analog mod to an SB2. I like the analog-modded SB2's analog outs a little better into an Arcam AVR than I like the selfsame SB2 feeding the Arcam digitally -- and this though I bought the Arcam partly because of how well it does D/A for an A/V receiver. So kudos to Sean and Co. for the basic A/D design and Wayne for unleashing it -- although of course before I moved it to my big-boy digital-only TacT system I listened to my new Transporter's analog outputs in this system, and it sounds sweeet. No apparent loss of detail, but just a rich, involving sound. Quite frankly, in a whole different class from any flavor of SB.
The Bolder digital SB3 definitely sounded better feeding the TacT system than than pre-mods, but there was always a tough choice between Toslink and coax. Toslink sounded a little muddier, but lacked a little edge I associate with noise conduction. Coax was more capable of that skin-tingling immediacy which really sucks you into a performance, but at an apparent cost in a little bit of edginess, too. I generally preferred the coax anyway.
But the Transporter, ah, the Transporter. I get no impression that it's polluting my system, even hard-connected with copper. The immediacy is all there, but with a remarkable delicacy and lightness of foot (not to be confused with lightness of bass). Wayne of Bolder did a great job extracting what could be extracted from an SB, but if you can, just get a Transporter.
I think my listening must be bearing out what Anthony Padilla has been saying -- that the SB design is fundamentally not quite high-end-worthy from the point of view of grounding and the ability to control noise. There's only so clean you can get it. Sean and chums have gotten it right with the Transporter.
Last edited by jbm0; 2006-09-30, 20:14.
Reason: Typo - typing so fast I dropped a word.
Thanks jbm. Even I am not sure about the Bybees. I cannot buy something when I dont understand how it works !!.
I have a weak link in my system - the amp is a Panasonic XR55 (a poor-man's TACT ? :-)). I need to get the real Tact before I go for the Transporter. So I think I will go for the Bolder digital mods now and see how it fares.
(Interestingly, even the humble Panny resolves differences between my CD, SACD, LP and the SB3 with the stock vs modded Elpac power supply).
Main
Wellborne Labs Power Supply -> SBT -> Zu Ash Coax -> TACT Digital Integrated Amp-> Zu Wax Speaker Cables -> Newform Research R630. Power Conditioning by Running Springs Audio Haley
Mobile
FLAC Files->TECLAST T51 Mp3 Player -> Silver Cables -> Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10
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