I have the album (vinyl) so I have the right to get the same content from wherever.
How could this be different from copying the vinyl to digital?
P
I've been pondering the legal, moral and ethical questions as well. I have a lot of vinyl records. I can either convert them to FLAC (I have all the necesasary equipment) or I can find a Torrent site (or similar) where someone has already done it, and download from there. Guess which is the easiest (and which I do)? I went through the phase of replacing vinyl with CD so most record companies have had my money twice (three times in some cases). Well not any more! Thank you Internet.
Anyway, quite a lot of my vinyl was either never released on CD or was and has been deleted. I no longer have a record deck setup so what am I supposed to do?
Consider the moral, ethical or legal aspects of the following and tell me if you've never done any of these:
1. You listened to the Top 20 show on the radio and taped it so you could listen to it again.
2. You borrowed an album from a friend, which you then taped.
3. You taped an album for a friend.
4. You made a "special" tape for a girl/boy friend.
5. You bought a 2nd hand CD, album or tape.
6. You sold any of the above.
7. You made a copy of an album to listen to in the car.
I'm sure there are many more examples, but the bottom line with all of these is that they infringe copyright in some way, so are illegal, and the record company/band/whoever aren't getting their royalties on any of these copies.
As far as I'm concerned, these days, if I have a copy of the original in any format, I'm morally entitled to make or download a copy for my own use. And yes, I do delete the "extra" tracks if I don't already have them!
As far as I'm concerned, these days, if I have a copy of the original in any format, I'm morally entitled to make or download a copy for my own use. And yes, I do delete the "extra" tracks if I don't already have them!
The biggest problem I would have with your statement is the moral entitlement to downloading a copy. It isn't so much that you shouldn't have the right to have a backup copy of what you already own. Rather, the person who made that album available isn't morally entitled to give it away. Someone out there too their copy made a backup and then distributed it for anyone to take.
Or imagine you taking an album you own, making your digital backup and then also giving it away to everyone.
The biggest problem with the current state of piracy vs. the examples you brought up from the past is that the past was often a case of distributing to a handful of people at most (say you copied an album for a few of your friends). Now, people can essentially distribute an album to 1000's or more people very easily.
It's just something to think about. The problems with downloading music should be thought of from the morals of the supplier as well as the one receiving the files. Not downloading doesn't necessarily make a difference, but at least when I do download (and I am guilty of downloading at times) that even owning an album that I download won't absolve me of the legal issues that could come with that action.
Emalvick, I agree with your post entirely, and from a legal point of view I (we) are in the wrong, but the thing is that Pandora's box has now been opened and until someone closes it again (ha!ha!) I'm going to save myself a lot of time and effort by downloading a version of an album I already own. Here in the UK at least, everyone who has transferred their music to computer or Ipod is currently breaking the law, although the government has finally recognised that the law needs to be changed (see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14384268).
Copying CD's is perfectly legal in the United States so long as the copies are for "fair use" which is basically personal, educational, or archival purposes. Software to copy CD's is completely OK.
Because there is ambiguity in the definition of fair use, considerable flexibility exists. For example, the Supreme Court ruled that "time shifting" a complete TV show with a Betamax is completely legal, even though the percentage of a work copied is a factor for consideration.
In cases where the copy is a duplicate of already owned material, it would be very difficult to make a case denying fair use.
Interestingly, copying DVD/HD/Bluray is also legal and a person does not break the law by copying their own material. What IS illegal is "to manufacture or traffic in a device or tool that permits a consumer to make such copies."
In short, the illegality is derived from bypassing the copy protection in video media since audio CD's do not have copy protection.
You're right. Making your own backup is ok. And I don't think there is anything even horribly wrong about Gillinger's method, which I have done myself.
The fair use law is being broken by those who are distributing the music we download. Add to that the fact that when using Torrent type systems, we are allowing the music to be distributed, which is probably easy to show is a violation of fair use... thus all the issue over torrent sites.
Never-the-less, that Pandora's box is open, and many people take advantage of it. I only make my comment because it is something I do think consider, and I do let it influence my decision when I do buy a second copy of something, especially when it comes to smaller/independent type artists.
Copying CD's is perfectly legal in the United States so long as the copies are for "fair use" which is basically personal, educational, or archival purposes.
I don't believe that it's that simple and clear cut. Fair use is intended for a different purpose and is always judged on a case-by-case basis using four 'tests'; making a copy of an entire works is rarely deemed to be fair use.
Copyright law (not fair use) addresses making a backup of a CD and making a backup of a CD is permitted provided ownership of the original work is retained, that the copy is used for personal use only, and no copyright protection was circumvented in making the copy. Also note that the backup must be destroyed if the original is no longer in a person's possession.
However, I agree 100% that we are in a time of massive change due to current technologies.
Also note that the backup must be destroyed if the original is no longer in a person's possession.
Ironic, isn't it, that the PURPOSE of making a back-up (a spare if the original dies) is therefore nullified.
r.
LMS on a dedicated server (PiCorePlayer)
Transporter (Ethernet) - main listen ining, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers
Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space
Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (WiFi) - home office
Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 4)
Touch x 1 - spare
UE Radio x 1 - spare
Boom x 1 - spare
Controller x 1 - Spare
Irony aside, there are a number of interesting issues here.
I have a lot of CDs which have all been ripped. The ripped music lives on my music server, and the CDs are in my possession, carefully filed away in box after box in my storeroom.
I also have a great deal of legally downloaded (paid for) music. What exactly constitutes the original here, I wonder? The copies I make for backup purposes are actually identical in form and content to the originals, just in a different location. What is the "original" from which derives my right to a "copy"?
Of course, I'm interested in security. If my house burns down, it will take my original CDs with it, along with the copies on my computers. Therefore I make back-ups that I store in a reasonably secure place -- a safety deposit box at my bank. Little portable hard drives are SO useful.
These represent a third copy -- original, original rip, and copy, or the analog for downloaded/purchased music. I wonder what the rule is about this generation?
And if all that is left of my CDs are lumps of mostly burned plastic, does possessing this still give me a right to my rips?
Ron
LMS on a dedicated server (PiCorePlayer)
Transporter (Ethernet) - main listen ining, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers
Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers
Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space
Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.)
Radio (WiFi) - home office
Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 4)
Touch x 1 - spare
UE Radio x 1 - spare
Boom x 1 - spare
Controller x 1 - Spare
Ironic, isn't it, that the PURPOSE of making a back-up (a spare if the original dies) is therefore nullified.
Not necessarily. If the original is scratched to hell then you can play your backup, and keep the scratched original as evidence of your rights to have that music.
But the letter of the law would also seem to imply that if the original is stolen, you would be obligated to destroy the backup, because the original is floating around somewhere. And in case of fire, you would also probably need to destroy the backup. Before easy digital backups, the usual solution for that was simple: insurance. But legal thinking on this doesn't seemed to have moved past the late 20th century.
As for keeping molten lumps of burned CDs as evidence of ownership for your backups (and not filing an insurance claim), that's an interesting question.
For legal downloads, I think the proof of ownership you'll need if the RIAA comes breaking through your door is some equivalent of a sales receipt, such as credit card receipts or perhaps the order history from the vendor.
Main system: SB3 > Emotiva XDA-1 > NAD C 325BEE > Vandersteen 1
Living room: SB2 > Audioengine HD6
Kitchen/dining: SB2 > AudioSource AMP 100 > 2-pairs of Polk Audio RC60i in-ceiling speakers
Deck/patio: SB Receiver > AudioSource AMP 100 > Polk Atrium 45
Study: Squeezelite-X on Win10 laptop with cheapo Logitech speakers
Bedroom: SB Radio
Quiet time: Hifiman Sundara headphones plugged into NAD amp or iPhone + AudioQuest Dragonfly Red DAC/amp
LMS 8.5 running on a Raspberry Pi3 (piCore), controlled using iPeng and SB Controllers
The recent examples are where I think the laws get a bit ridiculous and the reason the ethics of the issue get confusing.
I (as well as all of us) have probably backed up our CD's to some extent, otherwise we wouldn't be using squeezeboxes. I am guessing that most of us have kept the originals, so we aren't necessarily breaking any laws there, and how one obtains backups is not the issue at this point.
When it has come to the scratched discs, I've replaced them with copies, although I haven't necessarily kept the discs (just the cases). Before copies were easy to make I'd buy a new copy, and even now I'll buy a new copy if it is a favorite album.
As far as theft and fire go, I know we are supposed to destroy the copies. I also assume that insurance should cover the originals, so in theory one could buy all the discs again as well. Never-the-less, I really doubt that the RIAA and others are going to come after you for keeping copies.
I would not be tempted to keep a pile of melted plastic to prove I owned my albums. I'm not sure I'd go back and buy every album I owned either. It may not be right, but I'm not going to feel as bad about it as I would if I blatantly sold my CD's and kept the digital copies.
All that being said, I have to laugh because one time my car was broken into, and the would-be thefts obviously dug through my CD folders in my car. Ultimately, they stole nothing. I had a lot of CD's thrown about my car, some scratched, but none of them were missing. Apparently my taste in music (hard rock and jazz) were not up to the desire of the thief.
Irony aside, there are a number of interesting issues here.
I have a lot of CDs which have all been ripped. The ripped music lives on my music server, and the CDs are in my possession, carefully filed away in box after box in my storeroom.
I also have a great deal of legally downloaded (paid for) music. What exactly constitutes the original here, I wonder? The copies I make for backup purposes are actually identical in form and content to the originals, just in a different location. What is the "original" from which derives my right to a "copy"?
Of course, I'm interested in security. If my house burns down, it will take my original CDs with it, along with the copies on my computers. Therefore I make back-ups that I store in a reasonably secure place -- a safety deposit box at my bank. Little portable hard drives are SO useful.
These represent a third copy -- original, original rip, and copy, or the analog for downloaded/purchased music. I wonder what the rule is about this generation?
And if all that is left of my CDs are lumps of mostly burned plastic, does possessing this still give me a right to my rips?
Ron
The number of backup generations is not material as long as you have them. You don't buy the music, you buy the right to listen to it.
Of course you have to backup the digital versions ! That's just plain sense. It's not a question of if the drive will fail, it's when.
As to catastrophe: you need to keep a backup off-site as well.
You don't buy the music, you buy the right to listen to it.
That is actually the most important statement, and it is often lost in these discussions (meaning copyright discussions everywhere).
It then makes you wonder what exactly established that right. Does the destruction or theft of your CD's eliminate your right to listen to it?
I don't think the laws are straight forward on that answer.
I seem to recall a recent decision (in US court, although I'm not sure if it was the Supreme Court) that decided that it was ok to break DRM for the purpose of making back-up copies for one-self. That decision seemed to contradict other copyright related laws because once you strip DRM, how is one going to know whether you actually have a right to a digital file or not.
These things really get confusing, and I am not sure who it affects the most.
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