Power supply upgrade

[Patrick Dixon]

Isn't it amazing how much bile is generated because some people get some enjoyment out of a difference that they hear from some piece of audio equipment, and which they then choose to spend their money on?

People spend loads of money on real diamonds (rather than a piece of glass that most of us, in a blind A/B X/Y test wouldn't ever pick), or original art, or whatever - without comment!

Strange ...

[rajacat]

I would speculate that most of the posters here have not tried any "improvements" to the power supply so they are just venting their cynicism and do not speak from any useful experience. That said, I have bought a cheap ($2.50) linear power supply that requires a bit of soldering to work with the SB3. I will report back on its effect on the sound quality of my system. Others using the same power supply have reported obvious audible improvements in SQ. It must be clear to even the most fashionably cynical that they have no financial interest in lying to this forum.

[snarlydwarf]

Or they are responding to a general arrogance ("Well, there is a difference, your system is just not revealing enough, your ears are not as well trained as mine are" type comments) that permeats some posts.

Skepticism isn't the same as cynicism.

When people argue that there is a difference in sound between lossless codecs (which happens all the time here), where do you fall?

[Patrick Dixon]

When people argue that there is a difference in sound between lossless codecs (which happens all the time here), where do you fall?

I say:
"Well I haven't heard it, but if you can, then good for you".

[opaqueice]

I would speculate that most of the posters here have not tried any "improvements" to the power supply so they are just venting their cynicism and do not speak from any useful experience. That said, I have bought a cheap ($2.50) linear power supply that requires a bit of soldering to work with the SB3. I will report back on its effect on the sound quality of my system. Others using the same power supply have reported obvious audible improvements in SQ. It must be clear to even the most fashionably cynical that they have no financial interest in lying to this forum.

I haven't tried it - you don't need to speculate! - because I'm skeptical it makes a difference. I'm skeptical for several reasons, but primarily because the only difference it can possibly make (as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong) to the digital outputs (which I'm using) is changing the jitter spectrum, but the measured jitter with the stock walwart is extraordinarily low already - almost certainly below the level of audibility. However, I'd happily change my mind in view of some contrary evidence.

Please do report back on the difference. I think it's important to remember that humans are really very good at noticing differences when they expect to, even if none exist. So if you don't mind, when you do this please have someone swap out the power supplies and see if you can consistently tell the difference blind (ideally, do an ABX test, and do it at least 10-12 times).

[rajacat]

I have no opinion on that issue because I have not tried anything other than EAC>FLAC. I would respect the opinions of the skeptics more if they actually have had some experience with linear vs switching power supplies and not just use the forum for their bile.

[opaqueice]

Isn't it amazing how much bile is generated because some people get some enjoyment out of a difference that they hear from some piece of audio equipment, and which they then choose to spend their money on?

I hadn't noticed much bile here, just healthy skepticism. I certainly hope this doesn't degenerate into a flame war - I think this discussion is worth having.

Ultimately, if one believes there's a difference, one will probably hear one, in which case one will enjoy one's music more - great! Personally, I'm a skeptic by nature, and I find it difficult to believe these things absent some evidence, particularly when it's essentially impossible for a difference to exist (as in the case of comparing two lossless codecs). In the case of the power supply, things are less clear-cut, and therefore more interesting.

[rajacat]

I haven't tried it - you don't need to speculate! - because I'm skeptical it makes a difference. I'm skeptical for several reasons, but primarily because the only difference it can possibly make (as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong) to the digital outputs (which I'm using) is changing the jitter spectrum, but the measured jitter with the stock walwart is extraordinarily low already - almost certainly below the level of audibility. However, I'd happily change my mind in view of some contrary evidence.

Please do report back on the difference. I think it's important to remember that humans are really very good at noticing differences when they expect to, even if none exist. So if you don't mind, when you do this please have someone swap out the power supplies and see if you can consistently tell the difference blind (ideally, do an ABX test, and do it at least 10-12 times).

I am not able to take the time to set up an experiment that will satisfy all the skeptics, that would be impossible. Why don't you go over to the Audio Circles http://www.audiocircle.com/ and do a search on SB power supplies. There have been some A/B tests done on various PS that you might find interesting. I have found that the Audio Circles is the most erudite and helpful of any of the audio forums.

[opaqueice]

I am not able to take the time to set up an experiment that will satisfy all the skeptics, that would be impossible. Why don't you go over to the Audio Circles http://www.audiocircle.com/ and do a search on SB power supplies. There have been some A/B tests done on various PS that you might find interesting. I have found that the Audio Circles is the most erudite and helpful of any of the audio forums.

Thanks for the pointer, rajacat. I found this thread, which I had looked at before:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...box+power+test

but I have to say I didn't find it very convincing on the issue of whether these modded power supplies matter. For example this:

3. I have a couple of Red Wine battery power products in my system (SB3 and Clari-T), but I'll admit that I bought them on faith (and a LOT of Audio Circle reading!). When Woodsyi asked if I'd bring my SB3 over to compare it with his Bolder modded SB2 using different power supplies, I really wasn't sure how it would stand up. Well, it did just fine. It took Woodsyi a few tries to figure out how to use one SB remote to control 2 units, but once he had that down, the SBs were perfectly synchronized (try that with non-PC audio!). Woodsyi handled the toggle switch and was the only one who knew which was which. Initially, as Woodsyi reports, there was a sense that one of the units, which turned out to be the Bolder SB2 powered by a lab grade power supply, was very slightly louder and had more presence. However, once the SBs were perfectly synched, I found that I could not hear any difference at all when we toggled back and forth from one unit to the other. I don't know that the perfect synching had anything to do with it, but to me the two SBs semed to change from "slightly different" to "the same" once they got synched.

illustrates a number of things, the most telling being that he couldn't distinguish between two totally different power supplies (battery versus modded AC).

On a side note, this Bolder Cable Company also sells products using Bybee "Quantum Purifiers". The description of the supposed function of these on the Bybee website makes no sense - there is no such thing as "quantum noise energy", among other problems - which doesn't give me much confidence in the products they sell.

[mauidan]

Isn't it amazing how much bile is generated because some people get some enjoyment out of a difference that they hear from some piece of audio equipment, and which they then choose to spend their money on?

People spend loads of money on real diamonds (rather than a piece of glass that most of us, in a blind A/B X/Y test wouldn't ever pick), or original art, or whatever - without comment!

Strange ...

Great post!