New copy protection and Squeezebox

[Jeff52]

According to a story in the UK register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06...py_protection/ and other similar stories, the new Sony/BMG copy protection scheme will only allow ripping of such CD's to a hard drive as WMA DRM protected files. See detailed description from one of the copy protection companies here: http://www.sunncomm.com/support/sonybmg/

According to the Slimserver FAQ, Squeezebox2 will not stream DRM protected files. For those who do not download tracks from iTunes and similar services and obtain their music by ripping from CD's, I presume this will pose some substantial problems for Squeezebox users. From reading posts on the forum, it appears many of us (myself included) use lossless files on their PC's ripped from their CD's as a source for their Squeezebox music. These kinds of draconian copy protection measures really put a "squeeze" (pardon the pun) on Squeezebox users. I am not really interested in downloading lossy formatted music just to play via the Squeezebox or being forced to purchasing a CD AND downloading the same music via a music service to avoid the DRM issue. I paid for the CD, legally ripped it to my hard drive, paid for a Squeezebox to be able to stream it to my stereo equipment and now all of a sudden the DRM police won't allow me to listen to new music via my Squeezebox. I realize that there will be "cracks" developed and convulted workarounds, but that will just complicate things and make it a real hassle for most folks.

What a mess this all is. What does everyone else think?

[kefa]

totally agree. I vote with my wallet against DRM which is the reason why I go to all the trouble of buying CDs rather than downloading some poxy crippled files that sound foo barred.

problem is, I'm sure the unwashed britney listening masses don't see how they're being conned.

[fuzzyT]

Jeff52 wrote:

> What a mess this all is. What does everyone else think?

absolutely vote with your wallet.

when that fails you and something you must have comes out on one of
these labels, then educate yourself. not so convoluted after all:

<http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~jhalderm/cd3/>

You can:
Use Linux
Disable Auto-Run
Disable the malware driver
Just use the <shift> key

--
rt

"This is not a smoking gun for superfluidity. This is a cannon."

[Jeff52]

[QUOTE=fuzzyT]Jeff52 wrote:

> What a mess this all is. What does everyone else think?

absolutely vote with your wallet.

when that fails you and something you must have comes out on one of
these labels, then educate yourself. not so convoluted after all:

<http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~jhalderm/cd3/>

You can:
Use Linux
Disable Auto-Run
Disable the malware driver
Just use the <shift> key
QUOTE]

According to the link to Sunncom in my original post, the shift key "Princeton student" workaround, disable autorun workaround does NOT work with the new protection. The new protection forces you to accept the EULA and install the software or the disc will eject and cannot be copied. Yeah, I could buy a Mac (which is not currently affected), install Linux, etc., but that was precisely my point, in order to use the new discs, we will be forced to resort to new hacks or some other convulted method of what formerly was a rather simple process: ripping the CD's and then streaming the music via Squeezebox.

I agree with voting with my wallet, however, if, as reported and expected, all of the major labels follow suit (EMI is using another similar method already), then I will be limited to searching obscure labels with obscure artists which do not use crippled audio discs. Maybe that isn't all bad, however it is a substantial restriction on what I may listen to on my Squeezebox. This has got to be causing some anxiety to people who are in the business of marketing products to stream digital music via harddrives, e.g., Slimdevices and others. It would appear that most of these companies will be forced to use DRM licensing in their products so that the average person may stream their music.

[fuzzyT]

Jeff52 wrote:

>>According to the link to Sunncom in my original post, the shift key
>>"Princeton student" workaround, disable autorun workaround does NOT
>>work with the new protection.

Sorry, I didn't see that information in the Sunncomm page. The Register
page says something to that effect, but not with any precision. Did I
miss something?

>> The new protection forces you to accept the EULA and install the
>> software or the disc will eject and cannot be copied.

Some software must display the EULA and on rejection eject the disc. I
don't see how this could work except where this software loads (via
AutoRun) from the CD itself. Please let us know if you find out
otherwise.

Oh, and it appears as if Sunncomm will actually give you a workaround if
you ask in the right way.

see:
<http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050620_150829.html>

The 'simple mechanical workaround' referenced here smells an awful lot
like the old <shift> key trick.

perhaps this is where you ask:
<http://www.sunncomm.com/support/askthetech.asp>

I don't have direct experience with these discs, and it sounds as if you
don't either. For the time being I think the best course is just to
wait and see.

--rt

[kdf]

Quoting Jeff52 <Jeff52.1r3khn (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

> What a mess this all is. What does everyone else think?
>

since you asked...
Every record company executive who so greedily takes their customers' money
while failing to deliver a real product, and all the artists who allow this
kind of treatment to their loyal fans should all be lined up for one big,
collective bitch-slap.

yeah, I know, I'm riding the fence too much on this one..

-kdf

[Damon Riley]

Jeff52 wrote:
> According to a story in the UK register
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06...py_protection/
> and other similar stories, the new Sony/BMG copy protection scheme will
> only allow ripping of such CD's to a hard drive as WMA DRM protected
> files. See detailed description from one of the copy protection
> companies here: http://www.sunncomm.com/support/sonybmg/


This is a nuisance, and I *do* vote with my wallet, but it's only the
tip of the iceberg. I worry that DRM will one day be attached to the
files I create myself and only allow "trusted" software to open those
files. Eg. Text documents I wrote myself that only open for MS-Word, or
music files I recorded that will only play on iTunes. Why else would MS
& Intel be working on built-in DRM tech other than to lock you into
their formats & their software? Honestly, can you think of a better
reason besides lock-in from their point of view?

Oh, and for you US customers, you ought not forget that defeating DRM is
a federal offense. Literally. Check the DMCA. So even if the DRM tech
is crap, it's a crime to defeat it (though going around it is still
legal-- check with the US Circuit Court where you live, I Am Not A
Lawyer, etc. etc.).

-- Damon

[radish]

It is simply impossible (IMNSHO) to make a CD which will play in a regular CD player but which cannot be ripped. Many companies (including Suncomm in the past) have tried, all have failed. There have been so-called "protected" CDs on the market for years now, all are trivially defeated. In my experience, with auto-run switched off and a copy of EAC I never even notice the protection. Likewise, using Linux, MacOS or anything else non-windows will utterly defeat their schemes.

Thankfully very little of the music I care about comes from labels who treat their loyal customers like criminals, but for that little which does, well let them spend their money on snake oil. It doesn't work, it can't work, and it won't work.

I worry that DRM will one day be attached to the
files I create myself and only allow "trusted" software to open those
files. Eg. Text documents I wrote myself that only open for MS-Word, or
music files I recorded that will only play on iTunes.

Sounds like an excellent reason to use OpenOffice and Foobar2000 rather that Word and iTunes to me.

[mherger]

> Thankfully very little of the music I care about comes from labels who
> treat their loyal customers like criminals, but for that little which
> does, well let them spend their money on snake oil. It doesn't work, it
> can't work, and it won't work.

IMHO the american market is still very free compared to the european. Most
labels over here add copy protection. And I won't buy one single protected
CD.

A while back I ordered a disc directly from the US as I did not expect it
to appear on the european (swiss) market. I had rarely seen this artist's
work in Switzerland's music stores. But I was wrong: A few months later it
was in local shops - copy protected! Labels don't treat us all the same...

I recently asked myself whether labels are actually creeping back. There
are more and more unprotected CDs whose precursor were protected.

--

Michael

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[cliveb]

It is simply impossible (IMNSHO) to make a CD which will play in a regular CD player but which cannot be ripped.

Sort of true.

Any CD which needs to be able to be playable in a standard audio CD must have a red book compliant first session. Many copy-protected CDs use the simple expedient of having a second data session which is what the CDROM drive sees. This is trivially defeated by using a CDROM drive which has an option to ignore multi-session (eg. many of the Plextor range).

But there is another, far more sinister form of copy protection. In this, the audio session on the disc is deliberately scattered with uncorrectable errors, and relies on the audio CD player's error concealment (via interpolation) to produce an acceptable playback. The overwhelming majority of CDROM drives either do not perform error concealment, or do so poorly. The upshot of this is that you have to rip the CD in a mode that doesn't detect the errors (eg. EAC burst mode), and you end up with a rip that has many short digital glitches.

The only method I have found for successfully ripping these CDs is to play them on an audio CD player and record the SPDIF output in real time using a soundcard with a non-resampling SPDIF input. And of course this technique will work with *any* CD, no matter what "copy protection" technology it uses. The bottom line is: if you can listen to it, you can record it.