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  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    214

    Is there a genius out there who can put together a working LMS7.9 QPKG for QNAP NAS?

    Ever since QNAP upgrading to 64 bit firmware, support for LMS is much weakened. I can still manage to get it to play music (after some simple hack to copy some files to the "wrong" folder), but getting some plugins to work has become much more difficult (e.g. I can't get C3PO to work, and using Squeezelite as a DLNA device no longer works with flac, etc.). I understand that using docker (virtualization) works, but my older QNAP 469L doesn't support virtualization, so it's not an option for me. Another option is of course an external device running LMS, but that's another box and more clutter.

    From what I understand (based on the very little that I know or understand), the problems seem to lie with the long un-maintained SSOTS and that LMS seems to look for various files in wrong folders since the QNAP firmware update. I have no idea whether this is something that a technically adept person (obviously not me) can easily fix, but I and I'm sure many QNAP owners would appreciate a easy to install LMS7.9 QPKG (installing 7.9 after the old factory 7.7 qpkg is already a little convoluted for a lot of people)

    Any ideas?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardoo View Post
    Ever since QNAP upgrading to 64 bit firmware, support for LMS is much weakened. I can still manage to get it to play music (after some simple hack to copy some files to the "wrong" folder), but getting some plugins to work has become much more difficult (e.g. I can't get C3PO to work, and using Squeezelite as a DLNA device no longer works with flac, etc.). I understand that using docker (virtualization) works, but my older QNAP 469L doesn't support virtualization, so it's not an option for me. Another option is of course an external device running LMS, but that's another box and more clutter.

    From what I understand (based on the very little that I know or understand), the problems seem to lie with the long un-maintained SSOTS and that LMS seems to look for various files in wrong folders since the QNAP firmware update. I have no idea whether this is something that a technically adept person (obviously not me) can easily fix, but I and I'm sure many QNAP owners would appreciate a easy to install LMS7.9 QPKG (installing 7.9 after the old factory 7.7 qpkg is already a little convoluted for a lot of people)

    Any ideas?

    Thanks.
    Several regulars in the forums (including me) have stopped running LMS on their QNAP NASs in favour of running LMS on a Raspberry Pi, linked to the music files on the NAS.

    I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3 with piCorePlayer to run LMS. It's quite a cheap option, you just need the Pi, a cheap case and a power supply. I find it very easy to set up and much, much easier to update LMS versions than when I used to run LMS on the QNAP.

    Robert
    Home: Raspberry Pi 3/piCoreplayer/LMS7.9 with files on QNAP TS-239
    Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3)
    PiCorePlayer(Pi2) with touchscreen and IQAudIO DAC+>Sennheisers
    2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired)
    Office: LMS7.9 running on WiFi MyPassport drive > piCorePlayer(PiB)/HiFiBerryDAC > Amptastic Amplifier
    SqueezePad, iPeng as controllers

    last.fm/user/GrumpyBob

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bob View Post
    Several regulars in the forums (including me) have stopped running LMS on their QNAP NASs in favour of running LMS on a Raspberry Pi, linked to the music files on the NAS.

    I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3 with piCorePlayer to run LMS. It's quite a cheap option, you just need the Pi, a cheap case and a power supply. I find it very easy to set up and much, much easier to update LMS versions than when I used to run LMS on the QNAP.

    Robert
    Thanks, Robert.

    That's an idea I might need to consider, but it does involve an extra box (though very small) and another power plug in my jungle of AV and hifi hardware in the living room.

    A couple of questions for a real-life user:
    1. In your configuration, when you prompt something to play, do you know if the files would go directly from the NAS to the switch to the SB, or does it go to switch, to Pi, back to switch, then to SB?

    2. Given that Pi has very little ram compared to an computer or NAS (mine has 3GB), does it run well with large libraries (I have 120,457 tracks amongst 11,665 albums and growing)?

    3. Do you notice any performance difference in speed or audio quality compared with running LMS on NAS?

    Thanks again.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Vństerňs Sweden
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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardoo View Post
    Thanks, Robert.

    That's an idea I might need to consider, but it does involve an extra box (though very small) and another power plug in my jungle of AV and hifi hardware in the living room.

    A couple of questions for a real-life user:
    1. In your configuration, when you prompt something to play, do you know if the files would go directly from the NAS to the switch to the SB, or does it go to switch, to Pi, back to switch, then to SB?

    2. Given that Pi has very little ram compared to an computer or NAS (mine has 3GB), does it run well with large libraries (I have 120,457 tracks amongst 11,665 albums and growing)?

    3. Do you notice any performance difference in speed or audio quality compared with running LMS on NAS?

    Thanks again.
    Consider an intel NUC with such a library ? but the PI is so cheap so you can get one and try , if its to weak make a player of it.

    And have server and NAS not in the hif rack in the living room thats what a network is for, dump the server in a closet.
    Mine sites besides my main router and switch from where all the ethernet wiring in my home is distrubuted.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  5. #5
    Senior Member DJanGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardoo View Post
    A couple of questions for a real-life user:
    1. In your configuration, when you prompt something to play, do you know if the files would go directly from the NAS to the switch to the SB, or does it go to switch, to Pi, back to switch, then to SB?

    2. Given that Pi has very little ram compared to an computer or NAS (mine has 3GB), does it run well with large libraries (I have 120,457 tracks amongst 11,665 albums and growing)?

    3. Do you notice any performance difference in speed or audio quality compared with running LMS on NAS?

    Thanks again.
    1) You did not want an explanation how TCP/IP works? (That would break your brain even when i do a shortcut)
    Given the Fact that we talking about a LAN it doesnt matter that much how many hops a "play that track" needs.

    2) Remember why your NAS has 3GB RAM and ask yourself how much of that ram is aviable for 3rd Party usage like LMS.

    3) When i was younger and had two real slimdevices players i was so poor that my Home Lan was only 10 Mbit and Audio wasnt a issue since these old days.
    A 100 MBit Switch without A Fan simply wasnt aviable in these old Days.

    Your Lib is bigger than mine and i noticed a huge difference between my old Standalone LMS with an P Mobile and 4 GB Ram with my new I7 with 8GB Ram.
    WebGUI is increased - scantimes are decreased.
    But since my LMS has plenty of RAM i tested to run the cachefolder into a RAMDISK - didnt increase anything except the boot time was decreased (needs to copy the data into RAM before starting LMS)

    If i would run lms in my NAS? Nope
    If i would change my LMS to run as a NAS - yapp -> done that already.
    Raid and smb is the only thing you had to add to a standalone PC that already runs your LMS. Not a big deal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardoo View Post
    Ever since QNAP upgrading to 64 bit firmware, support for LMS is much weakened. I can still manage to get it to play music (after some simple hack to copy some files to the "wrong" folder), but getting some plugins to work has become much more difficult (e.g. I can't get C3PO to work, and using Squeezelite as a DLNA device no longer works with flac, etc.). I understand that using docker (virtualization) works, but my older QNAP 469L doesn't support virtualization, so it's not an option for me. Another option is of course an external device running LMS, but that's another box and more clutter.

    From what I understand (based on the very little that I know or understand), the problems seem to lie with the long un-maintained SSOTS and that LMS seems to look for various files in wrong folders since the QNAP firmware update. I have no idea whether this is something that a technically adept person (obviously not me) can easily fix, but I and I'm sure many QNAP owners would appreciate a easy to install LMS7.9 QPKG (installing 7.9 after the old factory 7.7 qpkg is already a little convoluted for a lot of people)

    Any ideas?

    Thanks.
    I appreciate and to some extent share your concern, although i have given up and gone the pi route. My guess is that the best bet would be to appeal on the QNAP forum for someone to do it since it's really a qnap issue (apologies if you have already done this).. The other alternative might be to see whether there were any other nases which can run LMS or whether those that did have now gone the way of LMS. What is the current position vis avis synology for example? Perhaps another alternative might be to take something that can run LMS and turn it into a nas.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardoo View Post
    Thanks, Robert.

    That's an idea I might need to consider, but it does involve an extra box (though very small) and another power plug in my jungle of AV and hifi hardware in the living room.

    A couple of questions for a real-life user:
    1. In your configuration, when you prompt something to play, do you know if the files would go directly from the NAS to the switch to the SB, or does it go to switch, to Pi, back to switch, then to SB?

    2. Given that Pi has very little ram compared to an computer or NAS (mine has 3GB), does it run well with large libraries (I have 120,457 tracks amongst 11,665 albums and growing)?

    3. Do you notice any performance difference in speed or audio quality compared with running LMS on NAS?

    Thanks again.
    My Pi3 server is connected by cable to the router, as is the NAS. My players are all connected by wifi to the router, and all playback is smooth. I cannot tell any difference in sound quality between LMS running on either device - not that I would expect a difference unless there were wifi issues.

    My library is 2585 albums with 27580 tracks - this takes about 5 minutes to scan for new files, and I think about 20 minutes for a clear and rescan.

    I use either of two iOS apps (iPeng and SqueezePad) or the LMS web interface to control the server, LMS seems as responsive as it did with the QNAP (though I switched from the QNAP several years ago). One real advantage is the ease with which LMS is updated on the Pi, it's much less hassle than on the QNAP.

    Robert
    Home: Raspberry Pi 3/piCoreplayer/LMS7.9 with files on QNAP TS-239
    Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3)
    PiCorePlayer(Pi2) with touchscreen and IQAudIO DAC+>Sennheisers
    2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired)
    Office: LMS7.9 running on WiFi MyPassport drive > piCorePlayer(PiB)/HiFiBerryDAC > Amptastic Amplifier
    SqueezePad, iPeng as controllers

    last.fm/user/GrumpyBob

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    214
    Thank you all for the responses.

    To address some of your responses/queries/ideas.

    1. Yes, the same thing had been posted to QNAP forum. Let's see what (if anything) happens.
    2. I worry about the RAM/ Pi performance issues because one of the reasons I upgraded to the current NAS from an ARM/512GB ram one was that it was struggling with my library (which was smaller back then about 5 years ago)
    3. I'll look around and see what would be an appropriate machine to run a clean and simple LMS. Just out of curiosity, I have this ancient thing doing nothing much at home:
    https://www.msi.com/product/tablet/WindPad-110W.html
    It's now running 8GB ram / 50G SSD with Windows 10 (I can change its OS if necessary). If a attach an 100M ethernet dongle to its only USB outlet, do you think it'll run better or worse than a Pi?

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Cheshire, UK
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    2,843
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardoo View Post
    Thank you all for the responses.

    To address some of your responses/queries/ideas.

    1. Yes, the same thing had been posted to QNAP forum. Let's see what (if anything) happens.
    2. I worry about the RAM/ Pi performance issues because one of the reasons I upgraded to the current NAS from an ARM/512GB ram one was that it was struggling with my library (which was smaller back then about 5 years ago)
    3. I'll look around and see what would be an appropriate machine to run a clean and simple LMS. Just out of curiosity, I have this ancient thing doing nothing much at home:
    https://www.msi.com/product/tablet/WindPad-110W.html
    It's now running 8GB ram / 50G SSD with Windows 10 (I can change its OS if necessary). If a attach an 100M ethernet dongle to its only USB outlet, do you think it'll run better or worse than a Pi?

    Thanks.
    The Windows machine should be quicker but in practise may not be due to all the (unnecessary) things that Windows does in the background - Windows updates, file system scanning, volume shadow copy etc.
    Pi3 with piCoreplayer music on QNAP TS419p via NFS iThingys/iPeng/Tablets/Jogglers
    Living Room - Joggler & SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s
    Office - Pi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / Pi & SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes
    Dining Room -> SB Boom Kitchen -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio)
    Bedroom (Bedside) - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    214
    If I get an lower end NUC or other barebone PC (which hopefully would have better performance than a pi, but not much bigger or more power hungry) with no preinstalled OS, what's the best way to put a running LMS 7.9 into it?

    Thanks.

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