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  1. #1
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    Pre-flight checks before updating to LMS 7.7.5 from 7.7.2 on QNAP TS-112P

    Having been on good terms with LMS 7.7.2 running on a low-powered NAS - a QNAP TS-112P, which is ARM-based and (I read somewhere) old by today's standards, I'd like to ask the forum if there are any reasons I should NOT install 7.7.5 (LMS keeps prompting me to update). If it's good to go, should I now use 7.7.6?

    I've also been trying to find out whether my NAS is capable of running versions of LMS later than 7.7.5/6, but without really knowing if it would benefit from it. Even if so, I'm a bit put off by reading about issues with things like plugin updates, requiring manual changes in Linux, which I'm not familiar with.

    If anything should go wrong with the installation, can I easily revert to 7.7.2?

    Thanks in advance for any advice. (I'm also going to post this in the QNAP LMS forum.)

    Current system info:

    NAS firmware is up-to-date, with QTS version 4.3.3.0299

    SSOTS Release 4.14 Modified for LMS 7.7.2

    Operating system: Linux - EN - utf8
    Platform Architecture: armv5tel-linux
    Perl Version: 5.10.0 - armv5tel-linux-thread-multi
    Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
    Total Players Recognized: 1 (Squeezebox Touch)

    Primary plugins:
    Custom Browse v2.15.676
    Custom Clock Helper v2.11.94
    Custom Scan v2.10.51
    Multi Library (pop and classical local libraries)
    Music Information Screen v4.4.11
    Playlist Manager v6.1
    TIDAL v1.2

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by losinj View Post
    Having been on good terms with LMS 7.7.2 running on a low-powered NAS - a QNAP TS-112P, which is ARM-based and (I read somewhere) old by today's standards, I'd like to ask the forum if there are any reasons I should NOT install 7.7.5 (LMS keeps prompting me to update). If it's good to go, should I now use 7.7.6?

    I've also been trying to find out whether my NAS is capable of running versions of LMS later than 7.7.5/6, but without really knowing if it would benefit from it. Even if so, I'm a bit put off by reading about issues with things like plugin updates, requiring manual changes in Linux, which I'm not familiar with.

    If anything should go wrong with the installation, can I easily revert to 7.7.2?

    Thanks in advance for any advice. (I'm also going to post this in the QNAP LMS forum.)

    Current system info:

    NAS firmware is up-to-date, with QTS version 4.3.3.0299

    SSOTS Release 4.14 Modified for LMS 7.7.2

    Operating system: Linux - EN - utf8
    Platform Architecture: armv5tel-linux
    Perl Version: 5.10.0 - armv5tel-linux-thread-multi
    Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
    Total Players Recognized: 1 (Squeezebox Touch)

    Primary plugins:
    Custom Browse v2.15.676
    Custom Clock Helper v2.11.94
    Custom Scan v2.10.51
    Multi Library (pop and classical local libraries)
    Music Information Screen v4.4.11
    Playlist Manager v6.1
    TIDAL v1.2
    Another option would be to get a Raspberry Pi, install piCorePlayer and LMS version 7.9.1, and point it at the music files on the NAS. This is what I've done with my QNAP NAS, and it works very well.

    Robert
    Home: Raspberry Pi 3/piCoreplayer/LMS7.9 with files on QNAP TS-239
    Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3)
    PiCorePlayer(Pi2) with touchscreen and IQAudIO DAC+>Sennheisers
    2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired)
    Office: LMS7.9 running on WiFi MyPassport drive > piCorePlayer(PiB)/HiFiBerryDAC > Amptastic Amplifier
    SqueezePad, iPeng as controllers

    last.fm/user/GrumpyBob

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bob View Post
    Another option would be to get a Raspberry Pi, install piCorePlayer and LMS version 7.9.1, and point it at the music files on the NAS. This is what I've done with my QNAP NAS, and it works very well.

    Robert
    I can only second that. A Pi is so cheap, connect it through ethernet to your router and then you can forget about it. It's so much easier than all the hassle of trying to shoehorn LMS on a NAS, IMHO
    LMS 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 - 5xRadio, 3xBoom, 4xDuet, 1xTouch, 1 SB2. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBoxOne, XBMC, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, JRiver 21, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, , Pi B3, B2, Pi B+, 2xPi A+, Odroid-C1, Odroid-C2, Cubie2, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5

  4. #4
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    Lee-On-The-Solent, UK
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    Robert & philippe,

    I use my SB Touch with a One-4-All IR remote, and being of a certain mindset I'm trying to resist the need to control my music from a tablet or smartphone (as I don't have one). Does your option mean I would need to change?

  5. #5
    No, I don't think it would stop you using your remote - your remote presumably talks directly with the Touch doesn't it? I can use iOS or Android apps, or the web interface, or I can use the IR controller that came with the Touch.

    Robert
    Home: Raspberry Pi 3/piCoreplayer/LMS7.9 with files on QNAP TS-239
    Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3)
    PiCorePlayer(Pi2) with touchscreen and IQAudIO DAC+>Sennheisers
    2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired)
    Office: LMS7.9 running on WiFi MyPassport drive > piCorePlayer(PiB)/HiFiBerryDAC > Amptastic Amplifier
    SqueezePad, iPeng as controllers

    last.fm/user/GrumpyBob

  6. #6
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lee-On-The-Solent, UK
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    So the Pi takes over as LMS, and the NAS dumbs down as file server?

    I was worried your Pi was replacing the Touch as a display-less digital transport. I just love the all-in-one nature of the Touch, and for me the ability to control it via IR is indispensable. Call me a Luddite, but it means I don't have to bother about having some other display device charged up and running, just to listen to music on my home system (AV receiver + speakers).

    Do you happen to use TIDAL? I'm currently subscribed to the Premium service, not HIFI. Both the Touch and LMS report all tracks as "256kbps CBR". Should I actually be getting 320k, or is 256k correct?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by losinj View Post
    So the Pi takes over as LMS, and the NAS dumbs down as file server?

    I was worried your Pi was replacing the Touch as a display-less digital transport. I just love the all-in-one nature of the Touch, and for me the ability to control it via IR is indispensable. Call me a Luddite, but it means I don't have to bother about having some other display device charged up and running, just to listen to music on my home system (AV receiver + speakers).

    Do you happen to use TIDAL? I'm currently subscribed to the Premium service, not HIFI. Both the Touch and LMS report all tracks as "256kbps CBR". Should I actually be getting 320k, or is 256k correct?
    I currently use two RaspberryPis. I have a Raspberry Pi version 3 that uses piCorePlayer, *running LMS* but without Squeezelite, so it doesn't function as a player on the system. A second Pi, which is an older model is configured as a player for headphone use (this one used to have a screen, but I removed it recently, so it's headless). I also have two Squeezebox Radios and a Squeezebox Touch on the system. There won't be a functional difference using a Pi as the LMS server instead of the NAS. In fact, I suspect you could stop the LMS on the NAS but leave it installed so you can revert to it if you need to. Another benefit of using the Pi as an LMS server is that it's much easier to update LMS than I ever found it with a QNAP NAS.

    I'm not a Tidal user, so can't comment there.

    PM me if you want some advice re setting up a Pi.

    Robert
    Last edited by Grumpy Bob; 2017-10-15 at 21:33. Reason: clarity
    Home: Raspberry Pi 3/piCoreplayer/LMS7.9 with files on QNAP TS-239
    Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3)
    PiCorePlayer(Pi2) with touchscreen and IQAudIO DAC+>Sennheisers
    2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired)
    Office: LMS7.9 running on WiFi MyPassport drive > piCorePlayer(PiB)/HiFiBerryDAC > Amptastic Amplifier
    SqueezePad, iPeng as controllers

    last.fm/user/GrumpyBob

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by losinj View Post
    So the Pi takes over as LMS, and the NAS dumbs down as file server?

    I was worried your Pi was replacing the Touch as a display-less digital transport. I just love the all-in-one nature of the Touch, and for me the ability to control it via IR is indispensable. Call me a Luddite, but it means I don't have to bother about having some other display device charged up and running, just to listen to music on my home system (AV receiver + speakers).

    Do you happen to use TIDAL? I'm currently subscribed to the Premium service, not HIFI. Both the Touch and LMS report all tracks as "256kbps CBR". Should I actually be getting 320k, or is 256k correct?
    As Robert says, your Touch remains ... untouched. Symply the LMS server runs on the Pi instead of the NAS and gets its files from the NAS. I don't want to be "dogmatic" about the way a NAS should be used, and mines are used for more than just file server, but these are applications that are made and supported for that NAS. NAS (especially the old or entry level ones) tend to have specific or limited Linux distro and trying to shoehorn somethong like LMS, which IMHO requires a fairly "open/standard" Linux distribution, especially when you want to add plugins, is calling for problems. In that case, either a generic purpose PC (running an OS or your choice) or a cheap but dedicated hardware like a Pi is a better choice.

    I personally have 2 main LMS servers, one running on a PC under and Windows and one on a cubie2 (== Pi). The Windows one used to be the main, but I was using the cubie more and more and last year I did a switchover, the Windows version is used occasionally now.

    Re Tidal, I don't have it any more, so I can't say, but if they claim 256 CBR (Constant Bit Rate), then it's 256, why would you expect it to be 320?
    LMS 7.7, 7.8 and 7.9 - 5xRadio, 3xBoom, 4xDuet, 1xTouch, 1 SB2. Sonos PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBoxOne, XBMC, Foobar2000, ShairPortW, JRiver 21, 2xChromecast Audio, Chromecast v1 and v2, , Pi B3, B2, Pi B+, 2xPi A+, Odroid-C1, Odroid-C2, Cubie2, Yamaha WX-010, AppleTV 4, Airport Express, GGMM E5

  9. #9
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lee-On-The-Solent, UK
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    Hmm... thanks, both. Seems like you make a good case for the Pi. Is it a physically neat and tidy solution?

    I'd first have to overcome a couple of mental hurdles, one being that when I got my NAS (with LMS pre-installed) from Ripcaster, I recall spending many hours getting to grips with (but never fully understanding!) several plugins needed to create custom menus for my classical music library. This was back in the days when I felt more technologically inclined, and now it would be quite daunting if I had to figure out how I did it all, and set up a Pi effectively from scratch.

    Robert, thanks for the offer of set-up assistance - I'll bear you in mind.

    Another hurdle is that the 1TB NAS is a relatively "green" (low-power, low-noise, compact, one-box) solution for LMS and my music files (... but I wish the HDD would spin down when idle!) The thought of having to add, and power, a further box just for a later version of LMS is somewhat irksome.

    To date I've had no replies in the QNAP forum, so probably for now I will have a go at updating to 7.7.5 or 6 and see what transpires.

    Quote Originally Posted by philippe_44 View Post
    Re Tidal, I don't have it any more, so I can't say, but if they claim 256 CBR (Constant Bit Rate), then it's 256, why would you expect it to be 320?
    I was using Spotify, until support recently got pulled, and it was 320k. TIDAL seem it bit coy about their bit rates: in the desktop app, my streaming options are either "Standard" or "High" (I have High selected). I believe the Touch automatically plays the best available stream, but with an apparent lack of additional info, and given that all the discussions I've read were about lossless, I was just hoping it would be equivalent to Spotify. I was also wondering if the fact that my version of LMS is old meant the bit rate may not be reported correctly.

    Don't get me wrong - my local library is probably 99% CDs ripped to FLAC, and this is what I prefer to listen to. As I'm not streaming very often I can't justify paying ú19.99/month for lossless. If I like an album on TIDAL that much, I will buy the CD and rip it. (I know they've brought out "Master", but there isn't the breadth of material yet, and it assumes you've got something which can play MQA.)
    Last edited by losinj; 2017-10-16 at 06:26.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by losinj View Post
    Hmm... thanks, both. Seems like you make a good case for the Pi. Is it a physically neat and tidy solution?

    I'd first have to overcome a couple of mental hurdles, one being that when I got my NAS (with LMS pre-installed) from Ripcaster, I recall spending many hours getting to grips with (but never fully understanding!) several plugins needed to create custom menus for my classical music library. This was back in the days when I felt more technologically inclined, and now it would be quite daunting if I had to figure out how I did it all, and set up a Pi effectively from scratch.

    Robert, thanks for the offer of set-up assistance - I'll bear you in mind.

    Another hurdle is that the 1TB NAS is a relatively "green" (low-power, low-noise, compact, one-box) solution for LMS and my music files (... but I wish the HDD would spin down when idle!) The thought of having to add, and power, a further box just for a later version of LMS is somewhat irksome.

    To date I've had no replies in the QNAP forum, so probably for now I will have a go at updating to 7.7.5 or 6 and see what transpires.

    I was using Spotify, until support recently got pulled, and it was 320k. TIDAL seem it bit coy about their bit rates: in the desktop app, my streaming options are either "Standard" or "High" (I have High selected). I believe the Touch automatically plays the best available stream, but with an apparent lack of additional info, and given that all the discussions I've read were about lossless, I was just hoping it would be equivalent to Spotify. I was also wondering if the fact that my version of LMS is old meant the bit rate may not be reported correctly.

    Don't get me wrong - my local library is probably 99% CDs ripped to FLAC, and this is what I prefer to listen to. As I'm not streaming very often I can't justify paying ú19.99/month for lossless. If I like an album on TIDAL that much, I will buy the CD and rip it. (I know they've brought out "Master", but there isn't the breadth of material yet, and it assumes you've got something which can play MQA.)
    My LMS server is a model 3 Raspberry Pi housed in a small unobtrusive black case, which sits out of the way (actually on top of the NAS), with a power cable, and an ethernet cable connecting it to the router. I don't think it draws much power, and I leave it running 24:7. The NAS and the Pi both sit in a cubby hole in an upstairs room.

    I'm running LMS 7.9.1, and I've installed the Spotty plugin for Spotify. Like you, I predominantly listen to flac rips from CD, but I do check things out on Spotify before purchase. (But you do need a Premium account).

    It does occur to me that if your current LMS running on the NAS still works well, you might be better to keep that in reserve so you can go back to it if you don't like the Raspberry Pi method.

    Robert
    Home: Raspberry Pi 3/piCoreplayer/LMS7.9 with files on QNAP TS-239
    Touch > DacMagic 100 > Naim Audio Nait 3 > Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3)
    PiCorePlayer(Pi2) with touchscreen and IQAudIO DAC+>Sennheisers
    2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 (retired)
    Office: LMS7.9 running on WiFi MyPassport drive > piCorePlayer(PiB)/HiFiBerryDAC > Amptastic Amplifier
    SqueezePad, iPeng as controllers

    last.fm/user/GrumpyBob

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