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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuang3 View Post
    Thanks for the input. I'm afraid it's more than just configuration. Some executables may be different from windows LMS. In addition, I need to install a beta version of Daphile in order to log into terminal, and see those settings.
    While I was playing wavpack DSD, my DDC (XMOS) showed 176.4Khz. Same thing on windows LMS. Maybe it just a false message, because 705kbps FLAC is just not practical for 176.4K/24bit data stream.

    PS. My DAC is not DSD capable. I don't mind DSD-to-PCM conversion.
    From you initial post iut was assumed your DAC can play DSD but since it cannot this phrase is irrelvant "I don't mind DSD-to-PCM conversion" - you have no choice - your DSD audio will have to be converted to PCM so why not just do it once and save cycles and space.

    Ignore the LMS text about 705kbps, it is just cosmetic eye-candy and not calculated - it is a hangover from when conversions were nearly always to 44.kHz /16bit and this was provided as an estimate.

    The only way to be sure what is the difference between Daphile and LMS on Windows is to first get the player.source logs. Why speculate when the facts are easy to get.
    Last edited by bpa; 2017-09-08 at 01:44.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Also that LMS claims 705kbps thats not really true its an old UI bug it's a placeholder for the typical 16/44.1 flac stream .

    The actual rate is not presented in the UI . You have to turn up logging and study the logfiles to actually see what the transcoding produces .

    In reality when transcoding works it do produce the maxrate reported for the player .

    For example my 24/96 player gets 24/96 flac stream for my DSD files even if the UI claims 705kbps . dito for my24/192 capable player UI still says 705k
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Apesbrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuang3 View Post
    PS. My DAC is not DSD capable.
    Some things are best disclosed in the original post.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    From you initial post iut was assumed your DAC can play DSD but since it cannot this phrase is irrelvant "I don't mind DSD-to-PCM conversion" - you have no choice - your DSD audio will have to be converted to PCM so why not just do it once and save cycles and space.

    Ignore the LMS text about 705kbps, it is just cosmetic eye-candy and not calculated - it is a hangover from when conversions were nearly always to 44.kHz /16bit and this was provided as an estimate.

    The only way to be sure what is the difference between Daphile and LMS on Windows is to first get the player.source logs. Why speculate when the facts are easy to get.

    I wish to keep the original DFF file so that I may play it on a new DAC in the future. I am having difficulty to get the "player.source logs" from Daphile. There is only limited information on Daphile. I have to ask the designer for that. As long as windows LMS doesn't do any down sampling, I am happy with it.
    Last edited by Phuang3; 2017-09-08 at 08:31.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Also that LMS claims 705kbps thats not really true its an old UI bug it's a placeholder for the typical 16/44.1 flac stream .

    The actual rate is not presented in the UI . You have to turn up logging and study the logfiles to actually see what the transcoding produces .

    In reality when transcoding works it do produce the maxrate reported for the player .

    For example my 24/96 player gets 24/96 flac stream for my DSD files even if the UI claims 705kbps . dito for my24/192 capable player UI still says 705k

    Thanks. Your feedback is helpful to me. The "705kbps" does make me feel suspicious about down sampling on LMS. In fact, I've tried to listen to DFF and wavpacked DFF. I can't tell the difference.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuang3 View Post
    I wish to keep the original DFF file so that I may play it on a new DAC in the future.
    Just because you convert doesn''t mean you have to delete the files - archive them.

    I am having difficulty to get the "player.source logs" from Daphile. There is only limited information on Daphile.
    LMS WebUI Setting/Advanced/Logging

    As long as windows LMS doesn't do any down sampling, I am happy with it.
    You won';t knwon until you look at the transcoding. For example the DAC may not report the full range of available sample rates to Squeezelite (I am assuming you are using Squeezelite).
    Last edited by bpa; 2017-09-08 at 09:41.

  7. #17
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    Hi bpa,

    I was so embarrassing that I did not know the logging feature of LMS. (I'm new to LMS) Here is the log output on [player.source]. Level was set to INFO. It looks like Daphile uses "decode" to convert the wavpacked DFF into WAV and sends the stream to player. On the LMS 7.9.1, wvunpack was used for PCM conversion, but SOX converted the wav into flac again?

    Code:
    Daphile
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6609] Slim::Player::Song::open (363) file:///srv/mediaserver/music/Network%20Drives/MyMusic/Yo-Yo%20Ma/2005%20-%20%20Yo-Yo%20Ma%20Plays%20Ennio%20Marricone%20SACD/CDImage.wv#2-195.106666666667
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6630] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (456) Matched: wvp->wav via: [Decode] -F wvp-wav-daphile-* -m $CLIENTID$ -p $PLAYER$ -f wav $START$ $END$ $RESAMPLE$ $PATH$
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6635] Slim::Player::Song::open (387) seek=false time=0 canSeek=2
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6649] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (456) Matched: wvp->wav via: [Decode] -F wvp-wav-daphile-* -m $CLIENTID$ -p $PLAYER$ -f wav $START$ $END$ $RESAMPLE$ $PATH$
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6654] Slim::Player::Song::open (410) Transcoder: streamMode=F, streamformat=wav
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6667] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::tokenizeConvertCommand2 (627) Using command for conversion: "/usr/local/bin/Decode" -F wvp-wav-daphile-* -m 5a-9a-7a-e3-c0-c0 -p daphile -f wav -s 2 -d 193.106666666667 -r 176400 "/srv/mediaserver/music/Network Drives/MyMusic/Yo-Yo Ma/2005 -  Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD/CDImage.wv" & |
    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6671] Slim::Player::Song::open (560) Tokenized command: "/usr/local/bin/Decode" -F wvp-wav-daphile-* -m 5a-9a-7a-e3-c0-c0 -p daphile -f wav -s 2 -d 193.106666666667 -r 176400 "/srv/mediaserver/music/Network Drives/MyMusic/Yo-Yo Ma/2005 -  Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD/CDImage.wv" & |
    
    
    LMS 7.9.1
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2626] Slim::Player::Song::open (363) file:///E:/MyMusic/Yo-Yo%20Ma/2005%20-%20%20Yo-Yo%20Ma%20Plays%20Ennio%20Marricone%20SACD/CDImage.wv#2-195.106666666667
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2630] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (446) Matched: wvp->flc via: [wvunpack] $FILE$ -wq $START$ $END$ -o - | [sox] -q -t wav - -t flac -C 0 $RESAMPLE$ -
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2631] Slim::Player::Song::open (387) seek=false time=0 canSeek=2
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2633] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::getConvertCommand2 (446) Matched: wvp->flc via: [wvunpack] $FILE$ -wq $START$ $END$ -o - | [sox] -q -t wav - -t flac -C 0 $RESAMPLE$ -
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2634] Slim::Player::Song::open (408) Transcoder: streamMode=F, streamformat=flc
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2637] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::tokenizeConvertCommand2 (617) Using command for conversion: "C:\PROGRA~2\SQUEEZ~1\server\Bin\MSWin32-x86-multi-thread\wvunpack.exe" "E:\MyMusic\Yo-Yo Ma\2005 -  Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD\CDImage.wv" -wq --skip=0:02.00 --until=3:15.10 -o - | "C:\PROGRA~2\SQUEEZ~1\server\Bin\MSWin32-x86-multi-thread\sox.exe" -q -t wav - -t flac -C 0 - |
    [17-09-09 09:08:02.2638] Slim::Player::Song::open (558) Tokenized command: "C:\PROGRA~2\SQUEEZ~1\server\Bin\MSWin32-x86-multi-thread\wvunpack.exe" "E:\MyMusic\Yo-Yo Ma\2005 -  Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD\CDImage.wv" -wq --skip=0:02.00 --until=3:15.10 -o - | "C:\PROGRA~2\SQUEEZ~1\server\Bin\MSWin32-x86-multi-thread\sox.exe" -q -t wav - -t flac -C 0 - |

    Here is the wavunpack.exe documentation:

    -q = quiet (keep console output to a minimum)

    -w or --wav = force ouput to Microsoft WAV format
    Output a Microsoft WAV file regardless of the input file format. All extra information in the original file's header and trailer will be lost and a "fresh" WAV header will be generated. For multichannel files, a WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE header is written, and for files over 4 GB, an RF64 file will be written (still with .wav extension). Note that DSD audio files will be decimated 8X and output as 24-bit PCM.
    Last edited by Phuang3; 2017-09-09 at 02:15.

  8. #18
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    The main difference between unpacking into WAV vs PCM. WAV is a PCM stream with a header which gives details about sample size(e.g. 1ch vs 2ch 16bit vs 24 vs 32 bitt) and sample rate (44.1kHz, 48Khz, 96KHz etc). A PCM is by default always 44.1Khz 16 Bit 2 ch. So if a WAV stream is fed into Sox or Flac exes - it will keep the stream acharacteristics but if a 96kHz PCM stream is fed into Sox or Flac exes then it will be output marked as 44.1kHz but not downsampled unless you have overriden the default using command line params to mark it as 96Khz. Therefore it is best use WAV format as that will enable the conversion to deal with different sample rates & sample sizes automatically.

    [17-09-09 09:01:31.6667] Slim::Player::TranscodingHelper::tokenizeConvertCo mmand2 (627) Using command for conversion: "/usr/local/bin/Decode" -F wvp-wav-daphile-* -m 5a-9a-7a-e3-c0-c0 -p daphile -f wav -s 2 -d 193.106666666667 -r 176400 "/srv/mediaserver/music/Network Drives/MyMusic/Yo-Yo Ma/2005 - Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD/CDImage.wv" & |
    This is the key conversion line. It uses an application called Decode (no idea - Daphile special but I sispect is a shell script which call wvunpack - look ) converts the file name coloured in red into a wav output stream. Looks like it forces WAV to encode stream as 176kBits. Very strange to have Player ID and Client MAC address in a format conversion - must be a Daphile special.
    /usr/local/bin/Decode" -F wvp-wav-daphile-* -m 5a-9a-7a-e3-c0-c0 -p daphile -f wav -s 2 -d 193.106666666667 -r 176400 /srv/mediaserver/music/Network Drives/MyMusic/Yo-Yo Ma/2005 - Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD/CDImage.wv

    I suspect Decode is a shell script - if it is copy the file /usr/local/bin/Decode to a post and it can be examined.

    with LMS 7.9.1
    C:\PROGRA~2\SQUEEZ~1\server\Bin\MSWin32-x86-multi-thread\wvunpack.exe" "E:\MyMusic\Yo-Yo Ma\2005 - Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Marricone SACD\CDImage.wv" -wq --skip=0:02.00 --until=3:15.10 -o - | "C:\PROGRA~2\SQUEEZ~1\server\Bin\MSWin32-x86-multi-thread\sox.exe" -q -t wav - -t flac -C 0 - |
    Conversion in two parts Blue and red. The blue part is wvunpack into a WAV stream. This WAV stream is a PCM stream with a header. The red part is Sox just encoding WAV stream into flac - no resampling or anything - don't know why sox is used as Flac exe would be just as good.

    If you have wavepack file which is not a real PCM stream such as DSD then you will need to insert an intermediate step between wvunpack and sox to convert the output of wvunpack from DSD into PCM.
    Last edited by bpa; 2017-09-09 at 04:51. Reason: typos

  9. #19
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    Hi bpa,

    Thank you for the detail explanation. Now, I have a better understanding on how LMS deals with different formats. If the final output is not downsampled, I am happy with it. Even if the wav was later encoded into Flac, it's still lossless. So, I switched back to LMS 7.9.1 already.

    Poting
    Last edited by Phuang3; 2017-09-09 at 06:41.

  10. #20
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    What is the point of saving "space" with wavpack 5.x (DSF,DFF) files if we
    do not play them as DSD.

    I can play DSF,DFF files (DOP) using squeezelite, but if I was able of playing the
    compressed wv files roughly (50% of original DSF,DFF filesize) this would be awesome.

    I have tried to play directly on my linux box, but I'm not able to play other than PCM format.

    Works great
    Code:
    sox file.dsf -r 176.4k -b 24 -t alsa plughw:2 dop
    Works great but this is not DSD
    Code:
    wvunpack file.wv -wq -o - | sox -q - -r 176.4k -b 24 -C 0 -t alsa plughw:2

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