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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mushupork View Post
    This Logitech unit I bought second hand recently and I am comparing it against a Classic I have had for years..

    Two things :

    1) Software cause ... Wouldn't a factory reset clear any software settings and set it to its defaults? I did factory reset a couple times already. (also the xilinx reset.)

    2) Hardware cause ... I can open it up to see if there is any evidence that someone modding it physically also when I get home tonight. I am not confident this is the answer but I do want to be thorough.
    1 . Not realy the old squeezeboxes are very simple devices almost everything is done by the server , so when it reconnects it picks up settings from the server .

    2 . hardware not really for the digital out (it's an 0.000000001% idea because i'm out of any other ideas ... )

    The second hand unit is disconected from the original owners mysqueezebox.com account ? and registred to yours ?
    Check that carefully , there is settings sync between mysb.com and your local server for some things .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  2. #12
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    When playing a radio station or Pandora the volume difference stays the so it must not be reading tags in my personal sound files etc.

  3. #13
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    Strange. I have mixed Classics and Slims in the past and never noticed that.
    So much happens in LMS for these thin players... perhaps install a temporary new server and see if there is still a volume difference? (could it be a stray convert.conf somewhere?)
    3 SB 3 • Libratone Loop, Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • LMS 7.9 (linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

  4. #14
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    I appreciate the suggestion but what is a convert.conf?

    The scenario here is that I had a Classic for a number of years and bought a second hand "new" one. (new to me anyway)
    I added the new Classic to my mysqueezebox.com account. I have done the hardware resets. (xilinx reset and factory reset) I have made no LMS server changes. Same server I have been using for years.

    I am no power user - up to now I use this to play my music collection on a single "stereo". If the players basically inherit all their brains from the server, and I made no server changes and no advanced configuration because I am a novice, I don't see how the "new" second hand player received a config file that the "old" player I had did not. The most sophisticated thing I have ever done is what I am trying now - having two players in separate rooms synchronized and playing the same music into two "zones". With the different volume outputs though, having a universal volume will be a challenge. Comfortable volume in one room might be too loud in the other and vice versa.

    Summary process of elimination:
    - Since I did full resets on everything it can't be a left over setting from the previous owner.
    - Since it does this when I am playing Pandora and Internet radio stations it can't be the music files themselves.
    - Since I compared the full volume out from the players (100%) it can't be something in the Classic volume control
    - Since I compared against the digital output and it was also much softer it can't be the analog stage of the Classics.
    - Since the balance is the same across both left and right channels I do not think this is the capacitor failure thing I saw in other threads.

    When I increase the output volume on the "new" Classic to compensate for the different volume output levels it sounds great. No quality problems or differences. In a situation where there was only one unit no one would ever think something was weird. I have 3 Classics, the original Slim Devices one I have had for years, 2nd unit that is Logitech branded and a 3rd Classic that is Slim Devices branded. The Slims play the same volume and the Logitech does not.

    I opened this thread thinking the answer might be that this was a known issue for power users. A long time user would see this and say that some Logitech branded units had different hardware inside or had different internal settings. You'd never know there was a difference unless you played them side by side. Not trying to lead anyone here but that is my pet theory since I can't think of anything else to test.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    100% volume on digital out should be the same volume on any source i.e. Bit perfect , CD player DVD player anything with a digital out ? Any squeezebox SB3 Transporter Touch raspberry pi all the same . Hence the volume can't really be the same .
    It's just a number .

    I would try a fresh server , to see if there is some leftovers in some config file or old plugin .

    Custom-convert.conf a way to write your own custom transcoding rules .

    What plugins do you use ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mushupork View Post
    I opened this thread thinking the answer might be that this was a known issue for power users. A long time user would see this and say that some Logitech branded units had different hardware inside or had different internal settings. You'd never know there was a difference unless you played them side by side. Not trying to lead anyone here but that is my pet theory since I can't think of anything else to test.
    No, sorry. Inside they are exactly the same. The slim ones have a reputation for being a bit more reliable (soldering quality) but that's all.
    It can be something in the volume control. Such as a filter, applied after it, that reduces gain. You can do this sort of thing, player by player, in a custom-convert.conf file. Few people use them, it is not well documented and there isn't much GUI for it. Using another LMS on another machine would allow to test that theory easily.
    Good luck.
    3 SB 3 • Libratone Loop, Zipp Mini • iPeng (iPhone + iPad) • LMS 7.9 (linux) with plugins: CD Player, WaveInput, Triode's BBC iPlayer by bpa • IRBlaster by Gwendesign (Felix) • Server Power Control by Gordon Harris • Smart Mix, Music Walk With Me, What Was That Tune? by Michael Herger • PowerSave by Jason Holtzapple • Song Info, Song Lyrics by Erland Isaksson • AirPlay Bridge by philippe_44 • WeatherTime by Martin Rehfeld • Auto Dim Display, SaverSwitcher, ContextMenu by Peter Watkins.

  7. #17
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    OK - so I installed Logitech Media Server 7.7.5 on a second PC. I then connected the Classics and I played an Internet Radio station. Same output level difference as before.

    I am not sure what this was supposed to test but I did it since it seems you both agree that it was the next step.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    ?? that's weird you use 100% volume and the digital out . Conected to the same input on the DAC/amp whatnot ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  9. #19
    Senior Member Apesbrain's Avatar
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    You've tried everything else; have you tried rewriting the firmware? Download a "fresh" copy here:

    http://update.slimdevices.com/update...zebox2_137.bin

  10. #20
    Junior Member
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    All Classics currently report in LMS as having firmware version 137.

    From a quick google and a read of the wiki the updates are automatic and initiated at power on. http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Firmware_update

    A quick look through the squeezebox folder (LMS software) I see that the firmware for the various player lives here:
    C:\Program Files (x86)\Squeezebox\server\Firmware

    I imagine I could download the file you linked, replace the existing 137 file in the LMS folder, restart the Classic and any firmware update would use this new file version. But if the player already is running 137, no update would happen, right? I would need to "wipe" the existing player firmware somehow. Would the hardware reset wipe that, then the server would see the Classic is not current and force down the update?

    In addition, this would affect all players not just the problem one. How do I deploy the bin file to the specific Classic only?

    Risk of bricking this is minimal?

    Thanks for the help.

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