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  1. #1
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    3 Classics - different output volume levels

    I just connected 3 classics to the same amp for the first time and noticed something I did not expect. The output volume is different even when all are set at 50% (the default after reset)

    I have a Logitech branded Classic v3 Black Body with Black trim
    I have a Slim Devices branded Classic v3 White Body with Silver Trim
    I have a Slim Devices branded Classic v3 Black Body with Silver Trim

    According to what I have found the internal hardware should be the same across all versions - at least no distinction is made on the wiki page title "hardware versions"

    I have swapped amp inputs and cables etc but the Logitech branded one in particular is a lot softer when set at the same output volume.

    I am wondering if others have seen this or if there is a different setting I may have missed that would affect the volume. I want to synchronize around the house but in rooms that are sometimes close enough that a difference could be noticed ... so I want them the same.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by mushupork; 2017-03-24 at 11:55. Reason: corrected sloppy typing/spelling

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Do you have replaygain activated on some of the devices ?

    Was it not some hardware preMp volume in some SB firmware ? Complete xilinx and factory reset ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  3. #3
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    I am not familiar with replaygain. "Volume Adjustment" in the menu is set to "No Volume Adjustment"

    I did a xilinix and a factory reset just now and the same thing is happening.

    I tested again just now and with the two players are synchronized, when I A/B the inputs on the amp the Logitech branded Classic output is more quiet. In order to have them play at the same perceived loudness in the room I have to raise the volume on the Logitech branded Classic about 25 steps. As in that one is at 55 on its output in the software menu while the other Classic has its output set at 30. I also played with the balance on the amp to be sure it wasn't that one of teh channels wasn't playing as loud as the other. The same problem exists when listening to just the Left or Right channels separately.

    http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.ph...et_and_Last_FW
    Last edited by mushupork; 2017-03-28 at 11:22. Reason: sloppy typing fixed

  4. #4
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    Replygain works by reading tags in the music file. If I have my various Classics synchronized they are playing the same file - so even if replaygain were enabled then they all would play the same file at the same volume, right? Unless I am misunderstanding I don't think that is my issue.

    Are there any other suggestions?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    There is a built in preamp volume of some sort in the firmware.

    I should be under the player settings tab somewhere ( in the LMS web-UI ) for your SB3 a value between 0-63 this is some kind of fixed attenuation .

    There is also an attenuation setting for streaming content that could differ in the player settings .

    I have my SB3 in box has not been on any of my latest server so I don't even have the prefs file left ?

    Are alll the SB3 at the same firmware ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  6. #6
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    I have two Classics connected right now.
    One is the Logitech branded one and the Other is a Slim Devices branded one.

    Firmware is 137 for both.

    I just checked the LMS web interface and both have the same settings
    Under Player > Basic Settings > Audio >
    "Volume Adjustment/Replay Gain" is set to "No Volume Adjustment"
    "Preamp Volume Control" is set to 0

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mushupork View Post
    I have two Classics connected right now.
    One is the Logitech branded one and the Other is a Slim Devices branded one.

    Firmware is 137 for both.

    I just checked the LMS web interface and both have the same settings
    Under Player > Basic Settings > Audio >
    "Volume Adjustment/Replay Gain" is set to "No Volume Adjustment"
    "Preamp Volume Control" is set to 0
    Can it be the failing output capacitor problem ? but its usually one channel that fails first ? There are other forum treads about the failing output capacitors .

    Do you have DAC or some HT receivers with digital inputs ? to see if the volume is really the same even without the analog part ?
    Try to use the digital outputs ? If the amp has digital inputs these are the ones you want to use anyway .

    Also try the 3,5mm headphone out to see if makes a difference its a different internal amp . Not as good an output as the normal RCA outputs but worth trying as an experiment ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Can it be the failing output capacitor problem ? but its usually one channel that fails first ? There are other forum treads about the failing output capacitors .

    Do you have DAC or some HT receivers with digital inputs ? to see if the volume is really the same even without the analog part ?
    Try to use the digital outputs ? If the amp has digital inputs these are the ones you want to use anyway .

    Also try the 3,5mm headphone out to see if makes a difference its a different internal amp . Not as good an output as the normal RCA outputs but worth trying as an experiment ?
    Thanks for the excellent - unfortunately same results.

    I first tried the headphone output on the Logitech and compared with the Slim Devices RCA outs
    = Logitech still a lot softer output

    Next I compared against optical out on Logitech branded to an outboard DAC
    = Logitech still a lot softer

    Next I swapped outputs on the integrated amp (again) to reconfirm this was really just the Classics
    = Softness followed the Logitech branded to the other amp input

    Lastly, just for grins, on the LMS software I set both Classics volume control to maximum output

    Basic Settings > Player > Audio > "Volume Control" = "Output level is fixed at 100%"

    The Logitech branded one is still much softer

    I made sure to specify in the first post that both Left and Right channels are the same volume which i think indicates that the capacitor issues you mentioned (and I found posts for) is not the cause.

    I am not sure what all this points to - but consistently in every config the Logitech branded C;classic is softer than teh Slim Devices one.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Then it must be a setting !

    Digital out at 100% should yield the same result a bitperfect output !

    You don't have the bitrate limiting feature on for any player ? In player settings .

    Try another LMS instance ( on another machine ) a fresh one where no one have meddled with the settings .
    With factory reset players .

    Conected directly to mysqueezebox.com and listen to a radio station does the differences persists .

    Any use of strange plugins , that set ups resampling rules ? ( I forgot it's name )

    Any custom-convert.conf files in use ? With special rules for each player .

    Grasping for straws here you haven't got a modded player second hand ,where some basket case have meddled with it ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  10. #10
    Junior Member
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    This Logitech unit I bought second hand recently and I am comparing it against a Classic I have had for years..

    Two things :

    1) Software cause ... Wouldn't a factory reset clear any software settings and set it to its defaults? I did factory reset a couple times already. (also the xilinx reset.)

    2) Hardware cause ... I can open it up to see if there is any evidence that someone modding it physically also when I get home tonight. I am not confident this is the answer but I do want to be thorough.

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