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  1. #11
    Senior Member Stig Nygaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    Stig,

    could you please re-try the very latest 7.9.1 nightly build? I
    identified an issue with the LMS login which _could_ _potentially_ lead
    to the problem you're seeing.

    Michael
    Cool. I will. I does require some time and energy to do so, even though I'm beginning to have the practice of installing and setting up:-) So it might not be today or tomorrow. But I will try to find time in the weekend if not before...

    Thanks for continuous effort :-)
    /Stig
    http://www.rockland.dk - http://www.last.fm/user/rockland - http://www.discogs.com/user/StigNygaard - https://plus.google.com/+StigNygaard
    Server: LMS 7.8.1 - 1483428886 @ Tue Jan 17 on ReadyNAS Ultra 2. Controllers & players: 2x Squeezebox Touch, [Not used: Squeezebox Classic,] 2x OrangeSqueeze. Stereo: Marantz PM6005 and F3/Lyd Audiovector.

    You might like to try my Art Grabr for fetching big cover-art from various sites - or Album Linkr for a better last.fm desktop experience...

  2. #12
    Senior Member Stig Nygaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stig Nygaard View Post
    Cool. I will. I does require some time and energy to do so, even though I'm beginning to have the practice of installing and setting up:-) So it might not be today or tomorrow. But I will try to find time in the weekend if not before...

    Thanks for continuous effort :-)
    On the other hand if I just try installing on top of 781 it shouldn't take long. But there's always the risk that I feel the need to revert to a clean 781 install afterwards. So maybe sooner - maybe in weekend :-) ...
    /Stig
    http://www.rockland.dk - http://www.last.fm/user/rockland - http://www.discogs.com/user/StigNygaard - https://plus.google.com/+StigNygaard
    Server: LMS 7.8.1 - 1483428886 @ Tue Jan 17 on ReadyNAS Ultra 2. Controllers & players: 2x Squeezebox Touch, [Not used: Squeezebox Classic,] 2x OrangeSqueeze. Stereo: Marantz PM6005 and F3/Lyd Audiovector.

    You might like to try my Art Grabr for fetching big cover-art from various sites - or Album Linkr for a better last.fm desktop experience...

  3. #13
    Senior Member Stig Nygaard's Avatar
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    Take two - Update from 781nightly to latest 791nightly

    Hi again

    I have now tried to upgrade to latest 791nightly build (7.9.1 - 1490335303 @ Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) on top of 781nightly.

    "Activity log":

    Stop 781nightly on NAS. Reboot NAS. Install 791nightly.

    Let the triggered full scan complete:

    Name:  Capture1.PNG
Views: 53
Size:  33.0 KB

    Final stats:
    Total Images: 0
    Total Videos: 0
    Total Tracks: 13,479
    Total Albums: 1,298
    Total Artists: 1,541
    Total Genres: 58
    Total Playing Time: 954:54:42

    Nice clean system log so far:

    Code:
    [17-03-25 08:27:02.9379] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) perl 5.008008 - i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    [17-03-25 08:27:10.8312] main::checkDataSource (1111) Warning: Schema updated or no media found in the database, initiating scan.
    But scan log got approx. 280 identical lines of:

    Code:
    [17-03-25 09:46:48.6133] Plugins::MusicArtistInfo::Common::__ANON__ (107) garbage after JSON object, at character offset 4 (before "read timeout\n") at /c/.squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/MusicArtistInfo/Common.pm line 100.
    Meta-data issues in my collection of flac/mp3 files? (Meta updated/edited mostly by various versions of Mp3tag or dBpoweramp). Collection generally looks correctly indexed, but hard to say if I got some missing tracks somewhere. Probably won't find out until I eventually someday wonder why some album or track ain't available. And haven't checked scan log of 781 recently, so can't tell if this is something new in 791.

    In the following I'm using the web-frontend to control LMS unless otherwise mentioned. All playing via my SBTouch devices.

    10:25 Play track from local music collection. Ok.
    10:30 Open Spotify
    10:32 Try to open Playlists in Spotify. Doesn’t open. LMS “stalls” (In another browser tab the Media Server system log is also hanging trying to update itself).
    10:37 Close the browser tab that’s trying to open the Playlists list in Spotify
    10:38:50 Tab with system log finally stops “hanging” and updates itself. A couple of new lines has been added to the log:

    Code:
     [17-03-25 10:34:23.1892] Slim::Networking::IO::Select::__ANON__ (131) Error: Select task failed calling Slim::Networking::Async::HTTP::_http_read_body: illegal file descriptor or filehandle (either no attached file descriptor or illegal value):  at /usr/share/perl5/Slim/Networking/IO/Select.pm line 134.
    ; fh=Slim::Networking::Async::Socket::HTTP=GLOB(0xcbf34d0)
    [17-03-25 10:36:38.1512] Slim::Networking::IO::Select::__ANON__ (131) Error: Select task failed calling Slim::Web::HTTP::processHTTP: illegal file descriptor or filehandle (either no attached file descriptor or illegal value):  at /usr/share/perl5/Slim/Networking/IO/Select.pm line 134.
    ; fh=Slim::Web::HTTP::ClientConn=GLOB(0xada6e04)
    [17-03-25 10:38:55.1792] Slim::Networking::IO::Select::__ANON__ (131) Error: Select task failed calling Slim::Web::HTTP::processHTTP: illegal file descriptor or filehandle (either no attached file descriptor or illegal value):  at /usr/share/perl5/Slim/Networking/IO/Select.pm line 134.
    ; fh=Slim::Web::HTTP::ClientConn=GLOB(0xcbf32f0)
    10:51 Open Spotify and Spotify Playlists on my tablet (Orange Squeeze connected to LMS). Playlists opens quickly (2 secs?).
    10:52:30 Try to play Spotify track from Orange Squeeze. Doesn’t play. Error in log:

    Code:
    [17-03-25 10:52:37.7762] Slim::Plugin::SpotifyLogi::Plugin::spds_handler (305) 00:04:20:22:73:35 Spotify error, code 6: Spotify login failed: Bad username and/or password
    11:03 Try playing track again on Spotify started with Orange Squeeze. This time it plays immediately. It could be simply the wait&retry fixing it. Or it could be because I disabled synchronization of my two SBTouch devices in the meantime.

    Also tries Squeeze Control Windows 10 app on my PC. It works just as fast & well as Orange Squeeze does on my tablet.

    Switch SBTouch devices to MySB.com (one device asks for login, the other does not need it) and back on LMS. Restart NAS/LMS. Enable synchronization of my SBTouch devices again.
    Verify Spotify on Orange Squeeze (tablet) and Squeeze Control (PC). Both open Playlists fast, but again fails playing:

    Code:
    2017-03-25 11:22:23 squeezeboxserver_safe stopped.
    2017-03-25 11:23:30 squeezeboxserver_safe started.
    [17-03-25 11:23:36.6567] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) perl 5.008008 - i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    [17-03-25 11:29:33.4925] Slim::Plugin::SpotifyLogi::Plugin::spds_handler (305) 00:04:20:22:73:35 Spotify error, code 6: Spotify login failed: Bad username and/or password
    [17-03-25 11:31:14.4401] Slim::Plugin::SpotifyLogi::Plugin::spds_handler (305) 00:04:20:22:73:35 Spotify error, code 6: Spotify login failed: Bad username and/or password
    Again does the switching to MySB and back to LMS. And again one of the devices needs me to enter credentials.
    Tries playing track on Spotify via Orange Squeeze. It fails:

    Code:
     [17-03-25 11:43:35.4415] Slim::Plugin::SpotifyLogi::Plugin::spds_handler (305) 00:04:20:22:73:35 Spotify error, code 6: Spotify login failed: Bad username and/or password
    Disable synchronization of devices and try Spotify again with Orange Squeeze. It plays!…

    Re-enable synchronization and try once more. Spotify plays now - and does it synchronized on both devices.

    Now tries via webinterface. But the “usual” result. Can’t even open submenus like Playlists in Spotify, and LMS stalls when trying…

    So, so far things looks very must like my upgrade experiences from last weekend. But I might try a clean install of the 791nightly later and see if things have changed there…

    PS. Also notice that, unlike on 781nightly, there's still no mention of the (possibly?) missing IO::Socket::SSL library in the log on 791nightly...
    Last edited by Stig Nygaard; 2017-03-25 at 05:13.
    /Stig
    http://www.rockland.dk - http://www.last.fm/user/rockland - http://www.discogs.com/user/StigNygaard - https://plus.google.com/+StigNygaard
    Server: LMS 7.8.1 - 1483428886 @ Tue Jan 17 on ReadyNAS Ultra 2. Controllers & players: 2x Squeezebox Touch, [Not used: Squeezebox Classic,] 2x OrangeSqueeze. Stereo: Marantz PM6005 and F3/Lyd Audiovector.

    You might like to try my Art Grabr for fetching big cover-art from various sites - or Album Linkr for a better last.fm desktop experience...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Stig Nygaard's Avatar
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    Take two(point two) - Clean install of latest 791nightly

    Hi Michael

    After the earlier attempt today doing another 781nightly->791nightly update without much success, I have now tried another clean install of the latest 791nightly. I won't say it's a big success, but a couple of interesting observations are made. And I actually (kind of) solves the problem of not being able to open submenus in Spotify via the webinterface...

    The process:

    Stop previously installed LMS791nightly on NAS. Uninstall LMS including removal of existing configuration and data. Reboot NAS and do a clean install of 791nightly (7.9.1 - 1490335303 @ Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017).

    After initial setup (connection to MySB account, etc), let the triggered full scan complete:

    Name:  scan2.PNG
Views: 44
Size:  33.4 KB

    A lot faster than earlier today when I updated my existing LMS. But it seems mostly to be because of extra scans by Music and Artist Information plugin in my old setup.

    System log at this point:

    Code:
    2017-03-25 16:14:02 squeezeboxserver_safe started.
    [17-03-25 16:14:07.1513] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) perl 5.008008 - i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    [17-03-25 16:14:10.5947] Slim::Utils::SQLiteHelper::postConnect (374) Optimizing DB because of missing or empty sqlite_stat1 table
    [17-03-25 16:14:10.7797] Slim::Schema::forceCommit (2149) Warning: Trying to commit transactions before DB is initialized!
    [17-03-25 16:14:12.4658] Slim::Utils::SQLiteHelper::postConnect (374) Optimizing DB because of missing or empty sqlite_stat1 table
    [17-03-25 16:14:12.6265] Slim::Schema::forceCommit (2149) Warning: Trying to commit transactions before DB is initialized!
    [17-03-25 16:14:14.0135] main::checkDataSource (1111) Warning: Schema updated or no media found in the database, initiating scan.
    [17-03-25 16:16:39.7404] Slim::Utils::SQLiteHelper::postConnect (374) Optimizing DB because of missing or empty sqlite_stat1 table
    [17-03-25 16:16:40.1592] Slim::Schema::forceCommit (2149) Warning: Trying to commit transactions before DB is initialized!
    I also notice, that the scan log does NOT contain the same warnings regarding “garbage after JSON object” as it did earlier today when scanning on the updated setup. The scan log looks good.

    Now testing Spotify before doing any more configuration….

    Via webinterface:
    Spotify Playlists list can open, but like on last weekends clean install, it takes almost 35 seconds to do so. But it plays fine.

    Via apps (Orange Squeeze and Squeeze Control):
    The Playlists list opens fast and tracks plays fine too.

    Via touchscreen on SBTouch:
    The Playlists list opens fast and tracks plays fine too.

    So at this point “only” the very slow opening of the Playlists list when using the webinterface, seems to be a problem with Spotify.

    No new log statements at this point.

    Now my plan was to quickly do all configurations up to the point where I gave up last weekend. This time just omitting all the checks and reboots on the way. But I quickly notice LMS won’t make it easy for me to set the Media Library Name on the "Basic Settings" tab. And instead of starting a rescan after trying to define the name of my library (as a prompt says it does) it looks like LMS restarts itself? It takes long time before the webinterface responds again after each attempt. After two apparently failed attempts to set the name, I try rebooting NAS first. Once again I try setting name of library, and after (another) long wait I decide to start a rescan manually. New log entries at this point (before manually starting the rescan) shows that LMS died unexpectedly 3 times:

    Code:
    [17-03-25 17:16:41.1519] Slim::Utils::Misc::msg (1244) Warning: [17:16:41.1510] Argument "" isn't numeric in numeric gt (>) at /usr/share/perl5/Slim/Plugin/AudioScrobbler/HTML/EN/plugins/AudioScrobbler/settings/basic.html line 6.
    2017-03-25 17:23:54 Logitech Media Server died. Restarting.
    [17-03-25 17:23:59.1037] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) perl 5.008008 - i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    2017-03-25 17:32:28 Logitech Media Server died. Restarting.
    [17-03-25 17:32:34.0620] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) perl 5.008008 - i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    2017-03-25 17:35:31 squeezeboxserver_safe stopped.
    2017-03-25 17:36:38 squeezeboxserver_safe started.
    [17-03-25 17:36:45.1596] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:09:34 UTC 2017) perl 5.008008 - i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
    2017-03-25 17:46:27 Logitech Media Server died. Restarting.
    [17-03-25 17:46:32.3311] main::init (388) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.1, 1490335303, Fri Mar 24 06:
    To be sure, now doing a complete “Clear library and rescan all” - and reboots the NAS...

    Checking Media Library Name. This time the name is updated. Obviously I had the same problem last weekend, I just didn’t discover what was actually going on (or not going on)…

    I continue doing my configurations… Fast forward, to where I was last weekend…

    Besides Spotify being slow when controlled via webinterface, I notice the webinterface is sometimes also pretty slow showing the LMS-frontpage (Slow initializing player-dropdown and slow showing Now Playing information and tracks in current play queue). But ignoring the speed-issues, basically things seems to work at this stage. And nothing new to mention from the log. No IO::Socket::SSL warnings either.

    So I continue to the "Interface" tab to do more configurations. And here I finally do a discovery directly related to my problem with opening submenus in Spotify via the webinterface. A critical setting is “Items Per Page”. In my old LMS78 setup I had this setting on 200. Running 781nightly it took 5 seconds opening the Playlists list in Spotify with this setting on 200. On 791nightly it is completely different with this setting:

    20 items per page: 12 seconds
    50 items per page: 33 seconds
    100 items per page: 70 seconds
    200 items per page: It stops working

    With this little “success”, I stop today's investigations. With 791nightly working as it currently does, it is likely I would prefer to revert to 781nightly at some point. But I will keep the 791nightly on my system a little while more finalizing my setup and maybe doing more investigations. And of course you might have some ideas to investigate or try?...

    Update 1: I still occasionally have Spotify connection problems (the "Bad username and/or password" errors in log). Fiddling around with players, sync or other various setup (so far) always solves the problem. But haven't found out what exactly triggers the problem (or triggers it to work again). I feels kind of random. Not a problem I had on 781.

    Update 2: Just discovered that the latest rescan I have done of library is full of the errors I first noticed when doing the the 781nightly->791nightly update, but didn't have in the scan done during the initial install of current setup:
    Code:
    [17-03-25 23:17:28.7808] Plugins::MusicArtistInfo::Common::__ANON__ (107) garbage after JSON object, at character offset 4 (before "read timeout\n") at /c/.squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/MusicArtistInfo/Common.pm line 100.
    But so far I don't think it is something serious(?) - And Library Statistics are unchanged.
    Last edited by Stig Nygaard; Yesterday at 02:03.
    /Stig
    http://www.rockland.dk - http://www.last.fm/user/rockland - http://www.discogs.com/user/StigNygaard - https://plus.google.com/+StigNygaard
    Server: LMS 7.8.1 - 1483428886 @ Tue Jan 17 on ReadyNAS Ultra 2. Controllers & players: 2x Squeezebox Touch, [Not used: Squeezebox Classic,] 2x OrangeSqueeze. Stereo: Marantz PM6005 and F3/Lyd Audiovector.

    You might like to try my Art Grabr for fetching big cover-art from various sites - or Album Linkr for a better last.fm desktop experience...

  5. #15
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Problems with LMS79x and Spotify onReadyNAS Ultra 2 [1/3]

    > [17-03-25 09:46:48.6133] Plugins::MusicArtistInfo::Common::__ANON__ (107) garbage after JSON object, at character offset 4 (before "read timeout\n") at /c/.squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/MusicArtistInfo/Common.pm line 100.

    That's the Music and Artist Information plugin trying to download artist
    artwork or missing cover art. Might be a temporary issue.

    > 10:32 Try to open Playlists in Spotify. Doesn’t open. LMS “stalls” (In
    > another browser tab the system log is also hanging trying to update
    > itself).


    How many playlists would you have (assuming you're talking about the
    list of your playlists)?

    What skin are you using? Could you try http://yourserver:9000/Classic
    (unless you're using Classic as your skin anyway, in which case I'd ask
    you to test Default instead)?

    > Switch SBTouch devices to MySB.com (one device asks for login, the other
    > does not need it) and back on LMS. Restart NAS/LMS. Enable


    What do you mean by "asks for login"?

    There's something odd about one of your Touchs: it seems to be "half
    connected". Eg. the Controller part seems to be connected to mysb.com,
    while the player is not. Sure enough it's the one complaining about
    Spotify credentials:

    > [17-03-25 11:29:33.4925] Slim::Plugin::SpotifyLogi::Plugin::spds_handler (305) 00:04:20:22:73:35 Spotify error, code 6: Spotify login failed: Bad username and/or password


    Maybe a device reboot would help?

    > So I continue to the Interface tab to do more configurations. And here I
    > finally do a discovery directly connected to my problem with opening
    > submenus in Spotify via the webinterface. The critical setting is “Items
    > Per Page”. In my old LMS78 setup I had this setting on 200. Running
    > 781nightly it took 5 seconds opening the Playlists list in Spotify with
    > this setting on 200. On 791nightly it is completely different with this
    > setting:
    >
    > 20 items: 12 seconds
    > 50 items: 33 seconds
    > 100 items: 70 seconds
    > 200 items: It stops working


    Hmm... I use the default 50 and still have never seen this kind of
    issues. And it's only with this one menu? Other menus would work as
    expected with 200 items?
    --

    Michael

  6. #16
    Senior Member Stig Nygaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > [17-03-25 09:46:48.6133] Plugins::MusicArtistInfo::Common::__ANON__ (107) garbage after JSON object, at character offset 4 (before "read timeout\n") at /c/.squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/MusicArtistInfo/Common.pm line 100.

    That's the Music and Artist Information plugin trying to download artist
    artwork or missing cover art.
    Makes sense. I have continued my setup of LMS791 including installing this and other plugins.
    Except for above, no other new "strange" things seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > 10:32 Try to open Playlists in Spotify. Doesn’t open. LMS “stalls” (In
    > another browser tab the system log is also hanging trying to update
    > itself).
    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post

    How many playlists would you have (assuming you're talking about the
    list of your playlists)?
    Yes, talking about my own playlists in Spotify. I have approx. 250 playlists in Spotify (With LMS781 it was never a problem).

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    What skin are you using? Could you try http://yourserver:9000/Classic
    (unless you're using Classic as your skin anyway, in which case I'd ask
    you to test Default instead)?
    I've been using Default theme. And if I ever have tried something else, it is so long ago that I don't remember.
    But a quick change to Classic theme on LMS791 makes big difference:
    Opening Spotify Playlists list with LMS791/Classic is at least as fast as it was opening with LMS781/Default. We're talking 4-5 seconds with "Items per page" set to 200 items, where it wouldn't even work at all if I was using the Default theme on LMS791. Spotify itself also seems to opens much faster using Classic theme on 791.

    In Spotify the problem is NOT isolated to the Playlists list only. If I define "Items per page" as 50, it will for example take approx. 40 seconds to open "What's New" and "Top Tracks" lists in Spotify.

    But the problem has so far only been noticed in Spotify. With "Items per page" set to 200 and using same Default theme on 791 as I have been using on 781, I can open "My Music" lists like "Album Artists", "All Artists", "Albums" and "New Music" in 4-8 seconds each. Never timed it on 781, but it feels pretty much like I've been used to on 781.

    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post
    > Switch SBTouch devices to MySB.com (one device asks for login, the other
    > does not need it) and back on LMS. Restart NAS/LMS. Enable
    Quote Originally Posted by mherger View Post

    What do you mean by "asks for login"?
    It asked for username/password when trying to connect to MySB.com. And yes, I've been suspecting my connection problems is somehow related to my player(s) forgetting the MySB login? It worked nicely though on LMS781 with my two Touch devices synched. And as writing this, it currently works nicely on LMS791 too. But I will try to do some more experiments switching between MySB and LMS with or without synchronizing of players enabled - and rebooting them. But actually I have tried doing som experiments with those things before, without coming to any conclusions ( - and I know I'm repeating myself, but there was never problems when running LMS781).
    But I will experiment again, just not now. I will post a follow-up on this later...

    Thanks for listening so far :-)
    Last edited by Stig Nygaard; Today at 13:01.
    /Stig
    http://www.rockland.dk - http://www.last.fm/user/rockland - http://www.discogs.com/user/StigNygaard - https://plus.google.com/+StigNygaard
    Server: LMS 7.8.1 - 1483428886 @ Tue Jan 17 on ReadyNAS Ultra 2. Controllers & players: 2x Squeezebox Touch, [Not used: Squeezebox Classic,] 2x OrangeSqueeze. Stereo: Marantz PM6005 and F3/Lyd Audiovector.

    You might like to try my Art Grabr for fetching big cover-art from various sites - or Album Linkr for a better last.fm desktop experience...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Suggestions try the Touch players directly on mysb.com for Spotify .

    Check that the controll part of players is controlling it's own player , hopefully you named them diffrently so that you can se which one you pick on the Touch select player menu ? ( hint while controlling another player from the Touch also set a different background idealy the same as that other players uses so that you see this from 5 meters away ).

    Then the switch to mysb.com and back migth work more smoothly ?

    Booth players are regognised on your mysb.com account ?

    Try without sync enable at one player at the time ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub.
    Bedroom/Office: Boom
    Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
    Misc use: Radio (with battery)
    iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad
    (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
    server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

    http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

  8. #18
    Babelfish's Best Boy mherger's Avatar
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    Problems with LMS79x and Spotify onReadyNAS Ultra 2 [1/3]

    > I've been using Default theme. And if I ever have tried something else,
    > it is so long ago that I don't remember.
    > But a quick change to Classic theme on LMS791 makes big difference:
    > Opening Spotify Playlists list with LMS791/Classic is at least as fast
    > as it was opening with LMS781/Default. We're talking 4-5 seconds with
    > "Items per page" set to 200 items, where it wouldn't even work at all
    > if I was using the Default theme on LMS791. Spotify itself also seems to
    > opens much faster using Classic theme on 791.


    Hmm... this all makes so no sense to me :-). I'm wondering whether
    there's an issue with some cached/stale data, or something which changed
    from 7.8 to 7.9 which I'm not seeing, as I'm running from git and not
    from a package. Would it be too much to ask you to completely uninstall
    LMS 7.8 before installing 7.9? Obviously I'd suggest you keep the backup
    of the prefs around to be restored if needed.

    --

    Michael

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