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  1. #21
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftlight View Post
    "Rational Audiophiles", perhaps?
    Nice. I like that - the rational audiophile.
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    Nice. I like that - the rational audiophile.
    Ranks right up there with some other oxymorons like "military intelligence" and "elevated subway"
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphpnj View Post
    Ranks right up there with some other oxymorons like "military intelligence" and "elevated subway"
    Let's try to change that Ralph! Promote another "option", "path", "school" to follow in the public Forums and Marketplaces...

    Men (usually) of distinction willing to submit to reason, objectivity, and scientific techniques like ABX and blind testing to adjudicate hardware fidelity. Able to use intellect to debate without spite. Able to acknowledge opinion from fact. Willing to call out falsehoods in the media and from Industry claims. Yet acknowledge the subjectivity of esthetics whether it be in the music we enjoy, the creature comforts of the hardware, the appearance of milled fasciae, and all sorts of other "non-utilitarian" functions of the sound system in our homes and in our possession because we can accept ultimately the joy of satisfaction in whichever way this hobby achieves for each individual.

    This "path" has always been there all along of course despite the "mainstream" subjective-based ridicule, ignorance, and heavy-handed "banning" of such viewpoints. Times are changing for better or worse (probably both). And I think in audiophileland, the "rational audiophile" can significantly impact the hobby for the good. The Internet is the tool for affecting the masses.

    I believe the path of the "subjectivist audiophile" is weak, ignorant, and clearly rests on an unstable foundation based on nothing but faith in false or grossly intellectually compromised idols and idiosyncratic "high priests".

    That's my rallying cry for the "rational audiophile".

    :-)
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    I believe the path of the "subjectivist audiophile" is weak, ignorant, and clearly rests on an unstable foundation based on nothing but faith in false or grossly intellectually compromised idols and idiosyncratic "high priests"
    I agree. Unfortunately that is a very popular path these days (not just in audio matters). Anti-intellectualism is doing all too well.
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  5. #25
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    Let's try to change that Ralph! Promote another "option", "path", "school" to follow in the public Forums and Marketplaces...

    Men (usually) of distinction willing to submit to reason, objectivity, and scientific techniques like ABX and blind testing to adjudicate hardware fidelity. Able to use intellect to debate without spite. Able to acknowledge opinion from fact. Willing to call out falsehoods in the media and from Industry claims. Yet acknowledge the subjectivity of esthetics whether it be in the music we enjoy, the creature comforts of the hardware, the appearance of milled fasciae, and all sorts of other "non-utilitarian" functions of the sound system in our homes and in our possession because we can accept ultimately the joy of satisfaction in whichever way this hobby achieves for each individual.

    This "path" has always been there all along of course despite the "mainstream" subjective-based ridicule, ignorance, and heavy-handed "banning" of such viewpoints. Times are changing for better or worse (probably both). And I think in audiophileland, the "rational audiophile" can significantly impact the hobby for the good. The Internet is the tool for affecting the masses.

    I believe the path of the "subjectivist audiophile" is weak, ignorant, and clearly rests on an unstable foundation based on nothing but faith in false or grossly intellectually compromised idols and idiosyncratic "high priests".

    That's my rallying cry for the "rational audiophile".

    :-)
    Nice missive however you seem to have forgotten that the anti-science political party here in the US now has complete control of the government and by extension the mood of the country and the people. So basically science is now like religion and one has the option of choosing whether or not to believe in science. Even worse is that one can even choose to believe in certain parts of science while rejecting other parts. So for audiophiles this means one can believe in measurements when it comes to bit depth and sample rates (as in digital audio) but not when to comes to harmonic distortion (as in tubes versus solid state).
    Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub
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    Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
    Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphpnj View Post
    for audiophiles this means one can believe in measurements when it comes to bit depth and sample rates (as in digital audio) but not when to comes to harmonic distortion (as in tubes versus solid state).
    And even for bit depth and sample rates, it becomes a simplistic pseudo-science application of numbers based on "bigger is better".
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  7. #27
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Oh, and just after I posted that I saw the World Health Organization warning about measles making a comeback in the western world due to people not vaccinating their children...
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  8. #28
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    And even for bit depth and sample rates, it becomes a simplistic pseudo-science application of numbers based on "bigger is better".
    Correction:

    In America in the year 2017 all science is now pseudo-science and one is free to believe the science or not, depending on how the science may effect one's bottom line.
    Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub
    Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
    Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub
    Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
    Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
    Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
    Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
    Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphpnj View Post
    Correction:

    In America in the year 2017 all science is now pseudo-science and one is free to believe the science or not, depending on how the science may effect one's bottom line.
    One of the wonderfull things about scientific results is that they are true even if you donĺt like them or believe in them . Heck even if no one believes in them or likes them

    Hence in the past before our brave new post-truth world leaders did carefully evaluate thier advisors words in matters they did not them-self grasped and accepted advice that was even against their belief system .

    The fact that folks in the most climate influencing country in the world denies the climate disaster is just psychology ? Living in denial is the word .
    If a truth has little value to you its easier to accept . If its emotionally disturbing and/or have greate impact on your lifestyle its a harder pill to swallow...
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  10. #30
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    Cor, using intellect without spite? Bring it on!
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