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  1. #11
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    "Placebophiles" -- I like it... ;-)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
    Today, there is no lack of software availability. There are dozens for Windows and Google Play Store shows at least 2 that even run on commodity and high end cell phones. Yet, accounts of their use are like hen's teeth on the web. They are highly convincing, especially when the audiophile uses them to do their own tests. But, people have got to actually use them.
    Audiophiles aren't going to use ABX tests, because so-called high end audio operates much like religions: it requires faith over and above rational analysis. Consider a devout Christian/Muslim/Jew/etc who is offered the chance to take a test that will prove beyond any doubt the existence or otherwise of God. They're not going to take that test, because it puts at risk their investment in a belief system. Audiophiles who buy in to the snake oil ideas are in pretty much the same position.

    And of course they have a get out clause: the high priests of audiophilia tell them that ABX tests are inherently flawed, so they have a rational (to them) reason not to take them.
    Transporter -> ATC SCM100A

  3. #13
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveb View Post
    Audiophiles aren't going to use ABX tests, because so-called high end audio operates much like religions: it requires faith over and above rational analysis. Consider a devout Christian/Muslim/Jew/etc who is offered the chance to take a test that will prove beyond any doubt the existence or otherwise of God. They're not going to take that test, because it puts at risk their investment in a belief system. Audiophiles who buy in to the snake oil ideas are in pretty much the same position.

    And of course they have a get out clause: the high priests of audiophilia tell them that ABX tests are inherently flawed, so they have a rational (to them) reason not to take them.
    Nicely stated. Plus throw in some additional nonsense like "the reason why you can't a difference between a high bit rate mp3 and a flac file or between a CD quality flac file and high resolution flac file is that the playback system is not high end enough" and you've constructed an almost bullet proof belief system.

    I do see an interesting parallel between that of hi-rez audio versus CD quality audio and that of digital audio versus analog audio - in that in the early days of CDs I was always amazed when I played an LP only to find that it really sounded quite good, less convenient to be sure, but not all that terrible sounding. The same thing is probably happening now with CD quality or even well made mp3s, in that upon close listening they sound pretty darn good, so good in fact that the hi-rez version doesn't offer a clearly better sound. And without a clearly better sound to justify the high price one's money tends to stay in one's wallet.

    As for high priced earphones and headphones - the up side is that better sound quality is coming to much less expensive earphones and headphones. I heard plenty of great sounding headphones and even one set of amazing planar magnetic earphones at CanJam. For me the price point at which the differences in audio quality between headphones becomes smaller and smaller is around $1000. For example the difference between the $1,000 Focal Elear headphone versus their $4,000 Utopia headphone is more of build quality rather than audio quality. And the Elear headphone is quite well made.

    Disclaimer: since all of my listening at CanJam was sighted and not very well controlled do not place any value on my observations.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Anyone considered that that the sq of an iPhone 6 is rather good, ability to drive certian headphones can be limited but not a bad source

    There is simply no piont getting a special portable player for most people even people who actually cares .

    Pono should have made a stationary device to , if they wanted to sell hardware rather than just files ? ( never understood the hardware offering , why not just a music store ? )
    And some app for our popular mobile OS.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveb View Post
    Audiophiles aren't going to use ABX tests, because so-called high end audio operates much like religions: it requires faith over and above rational analysis. Consider a devout Christian/Muslim/Jew/etc who is offered the chance to take a test that will prove beyond any doubt the existence or otherwise of God. They're not going to take that test, because it puts at risk their investment in a belief system. Audiophiles who buy in to the snake oil ideas are in pretty much the same position.

    And of course they have a get out clause: the high priests of audiophilia tell them that ABX tests are inherently flawed, so they have a rational (to them) reason not to take them.
    You are absolutely right about that, especially as applied to true, dyed in the wool audiophiles.

    I still remember the first anti-ABX comment I ever heard back in the late 1970s. The guy (a high end dealer) said: I don't believe in ABX. I said nothing because he was obviously in an irrational frame of mind. Reason does nothing at such times. Up until then I had never thought that good generally accepted science was up for a test based on what someone wanted to believe. In time I learned that this was not uncommon.

    I'm thinking about those who have not yet made the leap of faith to become placebophiles.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    I'm actually not worried about the proliferation of expensive goods. Financial disparity is getting worse in this world at least for now and there will always be the very rich who will go for price-no-object goods in that part of the market. Sure, many will purchase audio equipment as beautiful pieces of furniture, jewelry, and bragging rights.

    But what I believe we can achieve is to marginalize the truly ridiculous even further by shedding light on the nonsense of hundreds/thousand dollar cables, companies like Synergistic I suspect are in decline (notice the gradual decline of ads and website write-ups), reminding people of how technology (especially digital audio) actually works, and questioning the unwise proclamations of the high priests in ways that hopefully allow the silent majority watching from the sidelines to see their ridiculous stance.

    I think all of us here recognize ourselves as "audiophiles" but we don't need to be "high end" audiophiles as the magazines proclaim. I suspect the "high end" is weak and we can promote a kind of "audiophilia" which can accommodate the "love" of audio and the hardware, but dissociates the claims of sound quality from price, belief in voodoo, and can speak out against the unnecessary/detrimental like MQA.

    BTW: Speaking of the marginalizability of "high end" audio and the high priests, did anyone else see the video feature of Herb Reichert?
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/r...-herb-reichert

    Geez. I don't think many people would post nasty comments due to respect of human idiosyncrasies but just look at that... My wife would be horrified if this guy was some kind of role model. I would be horrified if my kids thought this was "cool". Notice there was barely room to move. Notice too no shot of his listening room to give us an idea of the size or whether reviews are done in a space that's reasonably treated for acoustics!
    Last edited by Archimago; Yesterday at 06:41.
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    BTW: Speaking of the marginalizability of "high end" audio and the high priests, did anyone else see the video feature of Herb Reichert?
    http://www.stereophile.com/content/r...-herb-reichert
    Based on your comments Mr. A, I watched it.

    Geez. I don't think many people would post nasty comments due to respect of human idiosyncrasies but just look at that... My wife would be horrified if this guy was some kind of role model. I would be horrified if my kids thought this was "cool". Notice there was barely room to move. Notice too no shot of his listening room to give us an idea of the size or whether reviews are done in a space that's reasonably treated for acoustics!
    Reading between the lines, I get the feeling that this is also JA's neighborhood. My first reaction is that like most of the close in NYC area, its a smelly $#!^ hole. I've spent enough time in NYC that my brain filled in the sounds and smells that go with the pictures. So I'm thinking who are you, Detroit-boy to cast stones? Fact is that the population density around here is low enough that the place blows clear due to the natural forces of nature. There are just too many sources of pollution (IOW people) in the near-in NYC area for that to happen there.

    I agree with you. BTW compared to my experiences with some other well-known SP staff like Fremer, this guy is Mr. personality. His audio systems and his so-called audio lab appear to be artifacts of the 1970s. The brand names and model names have changed but the basic technology is pretty much the same. We both have Heathkit 'scopes, but mine is not in use and hasn't been used for decades.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    I think all of us here recognize ourselves as "audiophiles" but we don't need to be "high end" audiophiles as the magazines proclaim. I suspect the "high end" is weak and we can promote a kind of "audiophilia" which can accommodate the "love" of audio and the hardware, but dissociates the claims of sound quality from price, belief in voodoo, and can speak out against the unnecessary/detrimental like MQA.
    "Rational Audiophiles", perhaps?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
    Reading between the lines, I get the feeling that this is also JA's neighborhood. My first reaction is that like most of the close in NYC area, its a smelly $#!^ hole. I've spent enough time in NYC that my brain filled in the sounds and smells that go with the pictures. So I'm thinking who are you, Detroit-boy to cast stones? Fact is that the population density around here is low enough that the place blows clear due to the natural forces of nature. There are just too many sources of pollution (IOW people) in the near-in NYC area for that to happen there.
    Bed-Stuy is undergoing gentrification, as are many parts of Brooklyn, Manhattan now being completely unaffordable for most people.

    https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...orhoods-report

    I suspect that Herb has a rent-controlled apartment, and it would be almost impossible for him to move to another place. I have a friend in Brooklyn in a similar situation, although he's in the rather nicer section of Brooklyn Heights.

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