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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphpnj View Post
    Gary, thank you for responding to my tedious questions. I really don't want to derail this thread by turning it into a thread about Roon but.........

    I do have a few more questions and comments.

    Regarding the "secondary" background scan: 1) is the replaygain defeatable since I don't use it nor do I intend to use it any time soon. 2) Is it during this background scan when Roon locates and builds the database with all the album/song information and generates the various links?

    As for the database size, I would guess that the final Roon database would end up being 3 to 4 times the size of the LMS database.

    And finally, can Roon be used/controlled from other devices (computers, tablets, smartphones, etc.) within the local network and will Roon provide the same information and links as when accessed from the computer that Roon is actually running on?

    Again I apologize for hijacking this thread and asking all these questions. Perhaps a little background information about my setup would help to explain my concerns. I have a Windows 10 computer that I use as the LMS server. This computer along with the external hard drives that contain all my music files is used only as an LMS server. On all my other computers and devices I use various programs (Moose, Muso, iPeng, Orange Squeeze, etc.) to access LMS and control the Squeezebox players in my home. So if Roon's fancy database can only be accessed from the same computer that Roon is running on then it would be a non-starter for me. In addition I have a much larger music library and I am concerned about Roon's ability handle a library of this size.
    No problem. I had all those same questions.

    1. secondary background scan. The detailed info, connections, data etc. is in the first (shorter) scan. The second scan is mostly the RG (R128) scan. The RG use can be turned off. It now works just like LMS (based on my suggestion to Roon it seems). That is, one can have RG (volume normalize is what roon calls it) turned OFF, turned to use TRACK, turned to use ALBUM, or turned to use AUTO (if adjacent tracks are from same album it uses ALBUM values, if from different albums it uses TRACK values. This is what SMART GAIN in LMS does. (also, one has the option to tell Roon to use the RG tag info instead of the info created by the Roon scan)

    2. Yes, Roon can be controlled from almost anything else on the same network. The core runs on a computer (windows, mac, linux). The control of Roon can be from that same computer or a different computer on the same network, or an ipad, iphone, android, etc. I control Roon running on a headless linux server from my windows laptop or my ipad.

    3. Based on reports on the Roon forums, there are a number of people with 500,000+ libraries that use Roon happily.

    4. You didn't ask, but Roon works well with perfect sync between different endpoints or can play different things to different endpoints. There are "roon ready" endpoints (purchased or simply a DIY pi microcomputer, etc.). And Roon software can turn Squeezeboxes and SONOS into Roon Endpoints as well.

    Roon just released 1.3, a major revision. It works well. It is early in its life and on its forum, it is more like the old days of slimdevices. Lots of interaction with the developers and founders of the company. One major difference: roon is not free after trial.

    And just to be clear, I'm not a roon fanboy pushing it on the slimdevices forum. I still mostly use my LMS and squeezeboxes. Roon is very nice and works well. But for my day to day use, I (and my wife) use lots of podcast listening and internet radio listening. Roon is way behind on this. It recently added internet radio (in a sorta clunky way....manually add URLs) and doesn't deal with things like podcast apps, etc. In fact, the only services it can access are TIDAL (which have a deep metadata integration with Roon). But for music collection listening it really is nice.

    EDIT. roon 1.3 has some new DSP EQ/room processing info that seems pretty sophisticated. Requires powerful core running Roon core. I haven't tried to use.
    Last edited by garym; 2017-02-08 at 06:14.
    Home: VortexBox 4TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet)
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    Files: ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify

  2. #22
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    No problem. I had all those same questions.
    And once again, a big thank you for your detailed answers. We now return this thread to it's original topic.
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  3. #23
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    My guess, in ten years time:

    I suspect those that care about quality (an ever dwindling audience) will continue to hoard media and their own fileset.

    The rest of the world will realise that iTunes or Spotify or tidal is good enough and the stream (aka personal radio station) will become the norm. end points will all be IP based and actually I think individual phones will be the player via either Bluetooth or airplay or some as-yet-undefined wireless local area network media playback system. It's perfect: you sit in your car listening to cached streams on your phone, you get home and the same stream picks up again onto your house system, following you from room to room automatically. Almost all devices will have built-in endpoints anyway but all keys back to your account. There will be NO room for differentiation of products because it will all be tied to the interface dictated by your chosen streaming service..

    Nirvana?
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    Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0
    Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums..

  4. #24
    Senior Member pablolie's Avatar
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    ".. One major difference: roon is not free after trial. .."

    I always thought it a big commercial mistake that SlimDevices gave away the software for free. I for one would have paid for major releases, and I think that would have ultimately made the company more successful long term. Arguably it is the software that is far more valuable...
    ...pablo
    Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04 + LMS 7.9
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
    ".. One major difference: roon is not free after trial. .."

    I always thought it a big commercial mistake that SlimDevices gave away the software for free. I for one would have paid for major releases, and I think that would have ultimately made the company more successful long term. Arguably it is the software that is far more valuable...
    Giving away the software was in hindsight perhaps a mistake but imo they did so because they thought that very few people would pay for software that was (and to an extent still is) difficult to install and configure if you aren't IT literate to start with. If you follow the posts on these forums (which I know you do) you still see people popping up saying they are using 7.7.x and haven't a clue about where to find 7.9 or how to install it. Those people bought in because of their love of music and all credit to SlimDevices/Logitech what they bought has pretty much worked without issue for a decade.
    Pi3 with piCoreplayer music on QNAP TS419p via NFS iThingys/iPeng/Tablets/Jogglers
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  6. #26
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    From a business bottom line point of view it would only have been a mistake if they lost sales as a result, but Logitech voluntarily dropped the whole platform, hardware and software. I am extortionately glad they didn't pull the LMS software from the world as may have been their right (didn't check the license agreement), but they didn't lose sales from leaving it out there.
    --
    Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0
    Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums..

  7. #27
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmatt View Post
    From a business bottom line point of view it would only have been a mistake if they lost sales as a result, but Logitech voluntarily dropped the whole platform, hardware and software. I am extortionately glad they didn't pull the LMS software from the world as may have been their right (didn't check the license agreement), but they didn't lose sales from leaving it out there.
    It's been well over 10 years since the original Squeezebox was introduced and so far other than online music streaming services no one has been come up with a music streaming system for use in one's home that functions any better than the Squeezebox system. Right now it would appear that Roon may evolve into a workable alternative to LMS but not any of those DLNA based systems. Logitech, not knowing quite how far ahead of its time LMS was and still remains, most definitely dropped the ball when they killed the Squeezebox line.
    Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub
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  8. #28
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    They made room for sonos.. and each established manufacturer's HDD based system. (Presumably all based off one supplier's chipsets and software underneath.) The slick UI and integration of ripping and archival into the stack helps make it a far more compelling option for most people than the LMS approach.

    Roon i dont know much about, will take a look though, sounds interesting.
    Last edited by drmatt; 2017-02-09 at 03:19.
    --
    Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0
    Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
    That is VERY cool. That is a major thing I miss with my library. I spent many hours scanning the album notes so I had as much info as possible, but of course picking the .PDFs is totally outside of LMS - it'd be awesome to be able to get the notes along the active playlist...
    What do you mean by "picking the .PDFs is totally outside of LMS " ?

    Have a look at http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...l=1#post757041 , Michael went on to include .pdf files as long as they are in the same folder as the tracks, but some files can be up the tree as the plugin assumes a structure of Artist / album / track. So a file called bio.pdf would be in the Artist folder and will be displayed under "Local Artwork".

    Now, a suggestion as to how Local Artwork can be automagicly displayed .......
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  10. #30
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmatt View Post
    They made room for sonos.. and each established manufacturer's HDD based system. (Presumably all based off one supplier's chipsets and software underneath.) The slick UI and integration of ripping and archival into the stack helps make it a far more compelling option for most people than the LMS approach.

    Roon i dont know much about, will take a look though, sounds interesting.
    From what I can gather LMS is one of the few music streaming systems that even attempts to manage one's music library, most of the other music streaming devices simply rely on third party music library management or brain dead mobile apps. While those "solutions" may be okay for the average user with a relatively small music collections (maybe a couple of hundred albums) for large music collections these solutions are pretty much useless, hence the need for software like Roon.

    As for "automatic" ripping and tagging - no thank you since these rely on the information available on the internet, which is very often incorrect or at least not the way one may prefer. Since I carefully tag or retag all music in my library I don't want some app retagging my music with incorrect information.
    Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub
    Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub
    Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub
    Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0
    Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar
    Garage: SB3-JVC compact system
    Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso
    Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos
    Last.fm

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