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  1. #21
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ho_kuku View Post
    I did experienced the same thing - but with IFI Audio IUSB
    Volume became louder - at the same time improved separation. The noise floor also was greatly reduced.
    It just goes to show how "noisy" USB audio is - and those noise have a negative impact on sound.
    Clearing the noise out greatly have a positive impact on sound.

    The IFI product was a 1) reclocker, 2) usb power regenerator etc
    It would be great if you could record the output with and without the IUSB, and post the sound files here...
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ho_kuku View Post
    I did experienced the same thing - but with IFI Audio IUSB
    Volume became louder - at the same time improved separation. The noise floor also was greatly reduced.
    It just goes to show how "noisy" USB audio is - and those noise have a negative impact on sound.
    Clearing the noise out greatly have a positive impact on sound.

    The IFI product was a 1) reclocker, 2) usb power regenerator etc
    (3) Snake oil, and the subjective impression that it changed the audio at all is

    (a) Technically impossible

    (b) Just another example of why all audiophile sighted evaluations are useless and misleading.

    One more time - here is how life works:

    Audio data encoded digitally is sacrosanct. It either is what it is, or it is nothing at all, or at least temporarily interrupted. It can be screwed up audibly during the transition back to analog, but unless your USB hardware is utter crap, reclocking and power regeneration can't change it in any audible way but break it if they are broken.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Archimago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ho_kuku View Post
    I did experienced the same thing - but with IFI Audio IUSB
    Volume became louder - at the same time improved separation. The noise floor also was greatly reduced.
    It just goes to show how "noisy" USB audio is - and those noise have a negative impact on sound.
    Clearing the noise out greatly have a positive impact on sound.

    The IFI product was a 1) reclocker, 2) usb power regenerator etc
    Hmmmm. As others say, this is really not possible.

    I fear to ask just how noisy your DAC is! Over the years of measurements, I have never seen noise all that significant over a USB interface unless something went wrong like picking up ground loop hum and stuff like that. If anything, they tend to measure better than other digital interfaces.

    Just have a look at the Oppo BDP-105 results I put up recently comparing USB, HDMI, Coaxial, TosLink:
    http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/04/measurements-oppo-bdp-105-rca-xlr-hdmi.html

    If you do find some evidence for what I believe is one of many myths in the audiophile world, I'd love to see it!
    Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

  4. #24
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimago View Post
    If you do find some evidence for what I believe is one of many myths in the audiophile world, I'd love to see it!
    What you chose to call a "myth" I chose to call a very carefully planned and targeted marketing campaign. Once one removes the real myth that states that the high end audio magazines produce editorial content that free of influence from the advertisers then one will begin to see just how these "myths" (aka marketing campaigns) work. It's really rather simple: manufacturer (aka advertiser) produces an item that does absolutely nothing and yet the item receives rave reviews in all the high end audio magazines. And so a myth is born.

    Archimago I know full well that you despise this behavior but I can't but feeling that your very polite responses to these myths is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The behavior of almost the entire high end industry, from manufactures to reviewers to salespeople, is despicable and needs to be treated not with respect but with scorn.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    I think archimago does it even better he have carefully measured and presented real evidence on his site.

    That works really well with the part of the pupolation that have not yet got "audiophilia" .

    The calm matter of fact manner helps convince the much bigger audience that not yet afflicted.
    The true believers are in most cases lost , they die off slowly ( the prices in high end indicates that this is a factor ).
    The more effective work is convincing people to not join the cult in the first place .

    A fun an educational site does this work more effectively than something else .

    The alarmist tone and manner ( used in populist politics ) would make him look like yet another cuckoo with alternative facts
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  6. #26
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    I think archimago does it even better he have carefully measured and presented real evidence on his site.

    That works really well with the part of the pupolation that have not yet got "audiophilia" .

    The calm matter of fact manner helps convince the much bigger audience that not yet afflicted.
    The true believers are in most cases lost , they die off slowly ( the prices in high end indicates that this is a factor ).
    The more effective work is convincing people to not join the cult in the first place .

    A fun an educational site does this work more effectively than something else .

    The alarmist tone and manner ( used in populist politics ) would make him look like yet another cuckoo with alternative facts
    I fully understand why you, Archimago and many others believe that the calm, polite and evidenced based approach is the proper one since reason does indicate that this approach SHOULD work much more effectively than my much more hostile approach. However the facts prove otherwise, in other words, the calm, polite and evidenced based approach does not work. Just ask President Trump which approach works better
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    Well I think the hostile aproach drives up to much tension and personal prestige it locks everyone involved into their trenches.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Well I think the hostile aproach drives up to much tension and personal prestige it locks everyone involved into their trenches.
    See my comment in the Holy Wars thread...
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnyb View Post
    Well I think the hostile aproach drives up to much tension and personal prestige it locks everyone involved into their trenches.
    I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    See my comment in the Holy Wars thread...
    I know what you mean. Reasonableness doesn't work against certain kinds of ignorance.

    But when people seem to act stupidly, often there is a reason for it that is not stupid at all. Trump voters vote for Trump for a complex set of reasons. For example, some are left behind economically - and many in the middle US view comparatively diminished income as a sign of disrespect of their work and contribution to society. That is hurtful, and there are limited lawful ways to express that hurt in a substantial way - one of them being voting in an election.

    It is emotional, but emotions are important. Remember none of the cars, houses, hi-fis, roads, planes, atom smashers or smart phones would have any meaning at all if humans disappeared overnight. Objects only have meaning in context, the context of humans being present.

    I would have voted Hilary, and I voted Remain, but I'm worried about polarisation in society.
    Last edited by darrenyeats; 2017-05-01 at 04:14.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member ralphpnj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrenyeats View Post
    I agree.

    I know what you mean. Reasonableness doesn't work against certain kinds of ignorance.

    But when people seem to act stupidly, often there is a reason for it that is not stupid at all. Trump voters vote for Trump for a complex set of reasons. For example, some are left behind economically - and many in the middle US view comparatively diminished income as a sign of disrespect of their work and contribution to society. That is hurtful, and there are limited lawful ways to express that hurt in a substantial way - one of them being voting in an election.

    It is emotional, but emotions are important. Remember none of the cars, houses, hi-fis, roads, planes, atom smashers or smart phones would have any meaning at all if humans disappeared overnight. Objects only have meaning in context, the context of humans being present.

    I would have voted Hilary, and I voted Remain, but I'm worried about polarisation in society.
    There is a very big difference between ignorance (voters, the buying audiophile public) and outright lying (the politicians, the media, manufacturers). No amount of gentle persuasion is going to stop the liars from lying because there is money and power involved. Sure a little education may change the minds of some of the ignorant but the liars will NEVER yield.

    I realize that promoting a worthless $500 USB cable is not the same lying about "clean" coal but it is nonetheless the actions are cut from the same cloth.
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