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  1. #11
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    Julf thanks for the suggestion regarding seeing if files get copied via the device. Just tried and the Intona seems to allow files to be copied and read to a usb device without issue.

    ArnyK - Thanks for taking the time to post.


    I have also dropped a note to the manufacturer to see if anyone else has come across this - if they come back with anything interesting I will post it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julf View Post
    Yes, the placebo effect is powerful, but in this case the OP is talking about a 10 dB difference in volume.
    Not necessarily so. The 10 dN number appears to be a subjective estimate and neither a calculation nor a measurement.

    There is no way that a reclocking device can affect audio by levels of even a tenth of a dB if the sound is reasonably intelligible before and after its insertion.

    That means that the 10 dB estimate has as its most likely cause the Placebo Effect.

  3. #13
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    the 10db figure is an estimate, subjectively 2 times louder. In terms of the preamp volume I had to turn the volume down by 1/4 of the dial to level match again after plugging in the intona device. So I am comfortable ruling out Placebo. If you disagree and still think I am self delusional, that's fine with me - but your further contribution to this thread would be illogical.

    The change that I made was 1 USB printer cable replaced by 1 new short cable + 1 intona device + 1 new short cable, no audiophile cables were used in this test. Anyway this is the reply that I got from the manufacturer

    "
    the data itself will not be modified by the isolator. This is proven by the checksum mechanism.
    The only thing that I can think of is that some control packets (e.g. gain information) are missing, resulting from a lousy connection.
    There are very often issues using "audiophile" USB cables along with the isolator, having "intentionally" broken screens or similar. Thus being defective from normative view.
    In case of that: please check again using standard, "printer grade" cables (even no ferrites, ideally wearing "USB certified" logo).
    This is a sensitive point in the isolator because it breaks the shield by definition - another break by a "defective" cable leads to a higher transmission error rate.
    "

    I will retry as the manufacturer proposed - but this will not be for a few days.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxesden View Post
    the 10db figure is an estimate, subjectively 2 times louder. In terms of the preamp volume I had to turn the volume down by 1/4 of the dial to level match again after plugging in the intona device. So I am comfortable ruling out Placebo. If you disagree and still think I am self delusional, that's fine with me - but your further contribution to this thread would be illogical.
    Wrong. You don't have a measurement of the perceived level change, and so it can be dismised as being just a perception and not a fact. The change can't happen for a reason that you seem to know. but apparently don't know how to apply.

    The change that I made was 1 USB printer cable replaced by 1 new short cable + 1 intona device + 1 new short cable, no audiophile cables were used in this test. Anyway this is the reply that I got from the manufacturer

    "
    the data itself will not be modified by the isolator. This is proven by the checksum mechanism.
    The only thing that I can think of is that some control packets (e.g. gain information) are missing, resulting from a lousy connection.
    Not true, for the same reason as already given. At the point where any such gain data is checksummed, it is streamed with the audio data. You obviously have no clue as to the details of USB data transmission. Tha may help:

    http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb3.shtml

    There are very often issues using "audiophile" USB cables along with the isolator, having "intentionally" broken screens or similar.
    I don't believe that, again for the reason you gave. Anything that breaks any part of a digital data stream can and probably will break any other part of it. There are some exceptions to that rule such as strings of repeated 0 bits and strings of repeated zero bits, but those are removed from the data stream as it is encoded. So, we are left with that nasty truism: Anything that breaks any part of a digital data stream can and probably will break any other part of it.

    Thus being defective from normative view.
    In case of that: please check again using standard, "printer grade" cables (even no ferrites, ideally wearing "USB certified" logo).
    This is a sensitive point in the isolator because it breaks the shield by definition - another break by a "defective" cable leads to a higher transmission error rate.
    "

    I will retry as the manufacturer proposed - but this will not be for a few days.
    The vendor is talking out of his butt.

    Please repeat after me: Anything that breaks any part of a digital data stream can and probably will break any other part of it.

  5. #15
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    May I humbly suggest that you review this and other responses that you have made on this forum and then consider how they may appear to other people?

  6. #16
    Senior Member Julf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxesden View Post
    May I humbly suggest that you review this and other responses that you have made on this forum and then consider how they may appear to other people?
    Arny has a somewhat aggressive style of communication. Nevertheless he is right about the answer from the isolator manufacturer being pure BS - there is no way that a data transmission error would affect only the gain information and nothing else.
    "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxesden View Post
    Any ideas why this might be? I had level matched before putting the thing in the chain and it must be 10 db louder - I mean it hurt.
    Clutching at straws - something really bad was happening in the analogue chain via the ground connection before the Intona thing isolated the grounds. Something like one half of a differential connection somehow 'shorted' to ground somewhere...

  8. #18
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    I replaced the input USB cable for a generic beige printer cable and the volume increase is gone, when I switch back the short Lindy USB cable the Digital interface is no longer recognised by the Touch

    I know the intona drops USB output from 500mv to 300mv and that may be enough for the Digital Interface and its DSP to operate incorrectly, but I am only guessing.

    I have tried the same setup into a few other USB to SPDIF converters I have and none exhibit the same issue. So time to put this one to bed. Thanks for the input.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxesden View Post
    May I humbly suggest that you review this and other responses that you have made on this forum and then consider how they may appear to other people?
    I know a veiled personal attack when I see one, and so do others. I've tried to help you and your response is to insult and humiliate me in public. How does that make you look?

    BTW you should know that the findings of science are not determined by popularity contests. Furthermore you are trying to make it look like you speak for everybody, when in fact you can only speak for yourself.

  10. #20
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    lowering noise floor results in higher perceived volumne

    I did experienced the same thing - but with IFI Audio IUSB
    Volume became louder - at the same time improved separation. The noise floor also was greatly reduced.
    It just goes to show how "noisy" USB audio is - and those noise have a negative impact on sound.
    Clearing the noise out greatly have a positive impact on sound.

    The IFI product was a 1) reclocker, 2) usb power regenerator etc

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