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  1. #1
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    Nested genre tags

    I've been thinking about tagging recently, as I looked at my own hopelessly muddled collection. Many many tags, mostly non-functional. Begging to be rationalized. I'm particularly interested in genre tags, as others (composer, artist, album artist, etc) are pretty straightforward.

    So this led me to consider what exactly I'd like in terms of genre tagging functionality. Some observations:

    • Genre tagging is a kind of taxonomy, not unrelated to scientific taxonomies
    • For me, you can think of these tags in a hierarchical or nested sense, e.g. Acoustic Blues is a subset of Blues
    • Actual genre tags don't need to be "nested", as multiple tag terms can be applied to an item (e.g. both Blues and Acoustic Blues)
    • But manually entering multiple genre tags for an item is tedious when you have thousands to do


    A tagging utility that automatically populated higher level genre tags on the basis of selection of lower level tags would be supremely useful. For instance, if I was tagging a Howlin' Wolf record I could just select "Chicago Blues" as a bottom level tag, and the utility would automatically tag the recording with Chicago Blues, Electric Blues and Blues. It could also generate the tag Urban Blues, even though Urban Blues are not necessarily Electric.

    I don't have a great many classical recordings, but this kind of genre tagging would be very useful there. It seems that everyone has different ideas about classical tagging, and I'd have to think about my categories -- but I'd like to be able to capture primary instrument in concertos (flute, violin, oboe, etc) as well as things like musical "style", e.g. classical, baroque, renaissance, modern). I'm much clearer on non-classical music, I admit.

    Ideally, such a utility would come with a bunch of pre-sets, but would be "programmable". Even entirely naked, requiring complete programming, wouldn't be a bad thing. The up front investment in setting up the tag categories would pay off in fairly short order during a re-tagging bout.

    Anyway, is this a total fantasy or is there something out there that might help me?

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  2. #2
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    I like the concept.

    My genre tags are rubbish. I spend hours checking the rest but little or no time on genres.

    You can do quite a bit with "Actions" in mp3tag but there would be quite a bit of work setting it all up and as you say you would have to start at the bottom of the nest

    An action called Chicago Blues would do

    Format value GENRE Chicago Blues; Urban Blues; Electric Blues; Blues
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  3. #3
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    Thinking further I would extend the Genre tag to include the origin e.g. USA, UK etc
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Mnyb's Avatar
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    An easy way may be to use multiple genre tags .

    But it would be up to you to implement it in a good way .

    For example jazz give everything roughly jazz the "jazz" genre tag .

    But also add more genre tags with "trad jazz" "hard bop" etc .

    I'" not talking about doing it in the same genre tag like "jazz , bebop" but actual separate tags like you probably use multiple artist tags .

    A thing I never tried Erlands custom browse plugins , are you not able to just create whatever tag and browse by that in some way ?
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RonM View Post
    A tagging utility that automatically populated higher level genre tags on the basis of selection of lower level tags would be supremely useful. For instance, if I was tagging a Howlin' Wolf record I could just select "Chicago Blues" as a bottom level tag, and the utility would automatically tag the recording with Chicago Blues, Electric Blues and Blues. It could also generate the tag Urban Blues, even though Urban Blues are not necessarily Electric.
    This is where I want to take bliss eventually, see https://www.blisshq.com/music-librar...ategorisation/ . Currently it only works such that the tree is scanned upwards until an "allowable" genre is found, and only one genre is supported. But I like your idea and where you go with it.

    I think the main problem with genres is the sheer number of them that can enter your collection.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by elstensoftware View Post
    This is where I want to take bliss eventually, see https://www.blisshq.com/music-librar...ategorisation/ . Currently it only works such that the tree is scanned upwards until an "allowable" genre is found, and only one genre is supported. But I like your idea and where you go with it.

    I think the main problem with genres is the sheer number of them that can enter your collection.
    Be interesting to see how this develops.

    The infinity of genre tags that I have in my collection is in part a function a certain randomness for some tagging on acquired digital files as well as my own tagging without a system. If I were starting over with a blank conceptual slate, I'd be quite systematic with fewer tags and an understanding that multiple tags can be very useful, especially with a clear hierarchical structure.

    The utility of it all would be when, for instance, I wanted to listen to something, e.g. acoustic blues, and could just choose the genre and randomize the play. Or if I wanted more diversity within the same theme, just choose blues.

    It would also help with identifying holes in the collection.

    Really, it's pretty obsessive. But that's why we have thousands of recordings.

    R.
    LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3)
    Transporter (Ethernet) - main listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers
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    Radio (WiFi) - home office
    Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 4)
    Touch x 1 - spare
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    Controller x 1 - Spare
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  7. #7
    Senior Member DJanGo's Avatar
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    i would not go with some external tool for genres anymore!

    eg. some tools use genres like Synth-Pop but that Genre is called Synthpop even in the official id3v1/2 Genre list.

    Long time ago i did wrote some shell(linux) script to get all these "errors" sorted. Now i only have 261 Genres instead of +500 (same library)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJanGo View Post
    i would not go with some external tool for genres anymore!

    eg. some tools use genres like Synth-Pop but that Genre is called Synthpop even in the official id3v1/2 Genre list.

    Long time ago i did wrote some shell(linux) script to get all these "errors" sorted. Now i only have 261 Genres instead of +500 (same library)
    Jan

    Where is the "official list" published. Can you provide a link?
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  9. #9
    Senior Member DJanGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d6jg View Post
    Jan

    Where is the "official list" published. Can you provide a link?
    Thats "tricky" cause there is no official Id3.2x Genre List anymore.
    Id3v1 only allows the ids and v2 allows everything.

    I do use id3v1 genres. /edit genre names not tags \edit

    A.3. Genre List

    The following genres is defined in ID3v1

    0.Blues
    1.Classic Rock
    2.Country
    3.Dance
    4.Disco
    5.Funk
    6.Grunge
    7.Hip-Hop
    8.Jazz
    9.Metal
    10.New Age
    11.Oldies
    12.Other
    13.Pop
    14.R&B
    15.Rap
    16.Reggae
    17.Rock
    18.Techno
    19.Industrial
    20.Alternative
    21.Ska
    22.Death Metal
    23.Pranks
    24.Soundtrack
    25.Euro-Techno
    26.Ambient
    27.Trip-Hop
    28.Vocal
    29.Jazz+Funk
    30.Fusion
    31.Trance
    32.Classical
    33.Instrumental
    34.Acid
    35.House
    36.Game
    37.Sound Clip
    38.Gospel
    39.Noise
    40.AlternRock
    41.Bass
    42.Soul
    43.Punk
    44.Space
    45.Meditative
    46.Instrumental Pop
    47.Instrumental Rock
    48.Ethnic
    49.Gothic
    50.Darkwave
    51.Techno-Industrial
    52.Electronic
    53.Pop-Folk
    54.Eurodance
    55.Dream
    56.Southern Rock
    57.Comedy
    58.Cult
    59.Gangsta
    60.Top 40
    61.Christian Rap
    62.Pop/Funk
    63.Jungle
    64.Native American
    65.Cabaret
    66.New Wave
    67.Psychadelic
    68.Rave
    69.Showtunes
    70.Trailer
    71.Lo-Fi
    72.Tribal
    73.Acid Punk
    74.Acid Jazz
    75.Polka
    76.Retro
    77.Musical
    78.Rock & Roll
    79.Hard Rock

    The following genres are Winamp extensions

    80.Folk
    81.Folk-Rock
    82.National Folk
    83.Swing
    84.Fast Fusion
    85.Bebob
    86.Latin
    87.Revival
    88.Celtic
    89.Bluegrass
    90.Avantgarde
    91.Gothic Rock
    92.Progressive Rock
    93.Psychedelic Rock
    94.Symphonic Rock
    95.Slow Rock
    96.Big Band
    97.Chorus
    98.Easy Listening
    99.Acoustic
    100.Humour
    101.Speech
    102.Chanson
    103.Opera
    104.Chamber Music
    105.Sonata
    106.Symphony
    107.Booty Bass
    108.Primus
    109.Porn Groove
    110.Satire
    111.Slow Jam
    112.Club
    113.Tango
    114.Samba
    115.Folklore
    116.Ballad
    117.Power Ballad
    118.Rhythmic Soul
    119.Freestyle
    120.Duet
    121.Punk Rock
    122.Drum Solo
    123.A capella
    124.Euro-House
    125.Dance Hall
    you will notice the id 133 "Negerpunk" is now gone!

  10. #10
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    Thanks


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