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  1. #1121
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    With a 2 minute delay my Touch is still working well - no problems. However, my squeezelite, now configured without any resampling, is not. It stops 2-3 minutes after iplayer reports an error on the system log like:
    Code:
    17-04-19 10:27:39.0478] Plugins::BBCiPlayer::DASH::_parseMPD_part2 (592)  No BaseURL definition found
    [17-04-19 10:31:59.7966] Plugins::BBCiPlayer::DASH::__ANON__ (750) Chunk fetch status 200 Long chunk fetch time 1246 ms
    [17-04-19 10:33:15.2139] Plugins::BBCiPlayer::DASH::__ANON__ (761) Aborting stream - fatal error fetching [388696443] Status=404 Reason: Not Found Fetch time 273 ms 
    [17-04-19 10:33:15.2146] Plugins::BBCiPlayer::DASH::__ANON__ (762) Failed URL: http://vs-dash-ww-rd-live.bbcfmt.hs.llnwd.net/al/lossless/A1/388696443.m4s
    The squeezelite (local player) log contains:
    Code:
    [10:36:16.000921] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:17.002158] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:18.003504] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:19.004774] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:20.001478] process:512 strm
    [10:36:20.001596] process_strm:267 strm command t
    [10:36:20.001655] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:21.002894] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:21.136098] decode_thread:100 decode complete
    [10:36:21.136288] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMd
    [10:36:22.137510] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:23.138775] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:24.001386] process:512 strm
    [10:36:24.001521] process_strm:267 strm command t
    [10:36:24.001581] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:25.002794] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:26.004066] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:27.005333] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:28.001356] process:512 strm
    [10:36:28.001480] process_strm:267 strm command t
    [10:36:28.001539] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:29.002751] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    [10:36:30.004033] slimproto_run:727 output underrun
    [10:36:30.004138] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMu
    [10:36:32.000616] process:512 strm
    [10:36:32.000713] process_strm:267 strm command t
    [10:36:32.000764] sendSTAT:182 STAT: STMt
    I assume squeezelite is just reporting 'no more data' after iplayer gets the 404. So the questions is why am I getting 404s when playing to a local squeezelite, but not to a Touch?
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  2. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    I assume squeezelite is just reporting 'no more data' after iplayer gets the 404. So the questions is why am I getting 404s when playing to a local squeezelite, but not to a Touch?
    404 is when the plugin is asking for data which is not available yet. There is only a 10mins window of available data and the last segment is available about 1 minute after realtime. Plugin will supply as much data as player can take as normally this is used to fill a buffer and once player buffer is full you get to a stready state where a segment will be requested once every 3.84 sec. With h/w players this buffer is smallish and finite. With softplayer - this buffer can be huge so player is trying to feed a player which keeps asking for more and eventually catches up to realtime when data is not yet available.

    Three issues.
    1. My plugin should not be requesting data at the "live edge" - it is supposed to stop before then (BBC don't like it) but I think with Flac's "live edge" is earlier than AAC and so that mechanism is failing.
    2. Not sure why your squeezelite has more problems than others/
    3. IIRC The "squeeze2" type players are unusual they effectively have infinite buffers and so phillipe had to take special measures.

  3. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    1. My plugin should not be requesting data at the "live edge" - it is supposed to stop before then (BBC don't like it) but I think with Flac's "live edge" is earlier than AAC and so that mechanism is failing.
    2. Not sure why your squeezelite has more problems than others/
    Should I try altering the 'buffer fullness' parameter, currently at 255?
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  4. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    That's good - it means - effort not wasted just for 2 weeks test. In the past Proms HD has been UK only. The current test stream is identical for UK and non UK.

    BTW the 365kbps comes from BBC "bandwidth" value in the DASH definitiion. If it is real I'm not sure what it implies as the streamed Flac is 48kHz/16bits but Prom web page says Flac will be 44.1kHz/16bits

    More info here

    https://radiotoday.co.uk/2017/04/bbc...aming-quality/

  5. #1125
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    Should I try altering the 'buffer fullness' parameter, currently at 255?
    BufferThreshold will not affect rate of filling the internal buffer and so not affect the 404 issue.

    "Buffer full threshold" is the level in Kbytes the buffer must reach before the player starts playing.
    Too small and the player will run out of data before next packet arrives or if there packet flow is lumpy and so there will be a gap.
    Making it bigger just increases the delay between pressing "play" and hearing music.

    For a slow speed 32kbps stream a setting of 100 would be about 25 secs delay before audio starts whereas with a 128kbps stream it would be a 6 sec delay and for the BBC DASH Flac it would be about 2 sec delay.

    A setting of 100 for DASH Flac is about 2 sec but each segment is 3.84 sec so it means audio will start when there is only one packet in player buffer and so for setting less than 100 there is a good chance of a gap in the audio just after playing starts of next packet doesn't arrive within about 1sec.

    BBC Dash Flac segment (each require a http GET) vary between about 128kbytes and 200kbytes and there is a gap "fetch time" between each segment usually less than 300msec but can be bigger and does vary a lot as noted in the log.

    So for higher speed stream it is better to have a bufferThrehsold set as high as possible.

  6. #1126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    BufferThreshold will not affect rate of filling the internal buffer and so not affect the 404 issue.

    "Buffer full threshold" is the level in Kbytes the buffer must reach before the player starts playing.
    Too small and the player will run out of data before next packet arrives or if there packet flow is lumpy and so there will be a gap.
    Making it bigger just increases the delay between pressing "play" and hearing music.

    For a slow speed 32kbps stream a setting of 100 would be about 25 secs delay before audio starts whereas with a 128kbps stream it would be a 6 sec delay and for the BBC DASH Flac it would be about 2 sec delay.

    A setting of 100 for DASH Flac is about 2 sec but each segment is 3.84 sec so it means audio will start when there is only one packet in player buffer and so for setting less than 100 there is a good chance of a gap in the audio just after playing starts of next packet doesn't arrive within about 1sec.

    BBC Dash Flac segment (each require a http GET) vary between about 128kbytes and 200kbytes and there is a gap "fetch time" between each segment usually less than 300msec but can be bigger and does vary a lot as noted in the log.

    So for higher speed stream it is better to have a bufferThrehsold set as high as possible.
    Thanks - I've put it back to 255 after some failed tests.

    I have tried running squeezelite on the same computer as LMS using the Local Player plugin without resamping, with and without direct access to LMS files, and got 404s each time. I then tried running squeezelite as a separate service and at higher priority. That was better, lasting around 30 minutes, but it still stopped.

    I then tried squeezelite on another computer, and it worked fine.

    I can only conclude that something about have the audio streaming on the same system as LMS is causing problems when the plugin is providing flacs. I have no idea what or why. I can run the standard aac stream without any problems to a local squeezelite.
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  7. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    I can only conclude that something about have the audio streaming on the same system as LMS is causing problems when the plugin is providing flacs. I have no idea what or why. I can run the standard aac stream without any problems to a local squeezelite.
    Hmm. All my tests with squeezelite are on the same computer as LMS and I don't get 404 - usually a network issue (homeplugs seem to be the root) causes problems first. Must try with mulitple squeezelite on same computer as LMS in case it is has to do with CPU cores.

    I think I know why the 404 could happen (although I don't see them myself) - next step is to try to reproduce on my syste,

  8. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpa View Post
    Hmm. All my tests with squeezelite are on the same computer as LMS and I don't get 404 - usually a network issue (homeplugs seem to be the root) causes problems first. Must try with mulitple squeezelite on same computer as LMS in case it is has to do with CPU cores.

    I think I know why the 404 could happen (although I don't see them myself) - next step is to try to reproduce on my syste,
    I put the delay up to 3 minutes and the high-priority separate service squeezelite is running better than local player ever has at 3 minutes.

    I haven't experienced any network issues - I have wired 1Gb ethernet to the external router, and 30Mb to the ISP. DNS all looks stable and good. The system is not high powered, but is an "Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D525 @ 1.80GHz, 4 cores". CPU loads are all less than 10%.
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  9. #1129
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    Hertfordshire, UK
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    The Radio 3 flac sound really is rather good, listening to evening concerts, but coming a bit late for me as my hearing fades

    No matter. I know this is a bit off topic, but I'd be interested to know if the BBC record straight to digital, and therefore whether FM broadcasts are originally digital and converted to analogue, or vice versa? For reasons to do with new LED light bulbs interfering with FM I've had to use DAB quite a lot lately, and even I can hear it's not a patch on FM. Flac via LMS or iPlayer on the other hand seems good to me, and doesn't suffer interference (just may not work well when Trump starts WWIII and the internet crashes out).
    LMS 7.9.1 on VortexBox Midi box, Xubuntu 17.10, FLACs 16->24 bit, 44.1->192kbps. Touch & EDO. 2nd Touch standard.
    LMS plugin UPnP/DLNA Bridge to MF M1 CLiC (to A308CR amp & ESLs) & Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers.
    Alternatively Minimserver & Upplay to same & to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers.
    Squeezelite to Meridian USB Explorer DAC to PC speakers/headphones.
    Wireless Xubuntu 17.10 laptop firefox/upplay or Android 'phone with Squeeze-Commander/BubbleUPnP controls LMS/Minimserver.

  10. #1130
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    Cambridge, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by PasTim View Post
    The Radio 3 flac sound really is rather good, listening to evening concerts, but coming a bit late for me as my hearing fades

    No matter. I know this is a bit off topic, but I'd be interested to know if the BBC record straight to digital, and therefore whether FM broadcasts are originally digital and converted to analogue, or vice versa? For reasons to do with new LED light bulbs interfering with FM I've had to use DAB quite a lot lately, and even I can hear it's not a patch on FM. Flac via LMS or iPlayer on the other hand seems good to me, and doesn't suffer interference (just may not work well when Trump starts WWIII and the internet crashes out).
    I have an LED panel lighting my kitchen that puts annoying amounts of noise on my FM reception, even with a loft aerial. I've tried ferrite chokes on the light panel cables but to no avail. It's incredibly annoying, but at least iPlayer AAC at 320kbps sounds better than FM anyway so I'm not losing out really.

    FM broadcasts are distributed digitally around the transmitters using NICAM. So there is already a digital section in the middle of the transmission network, and has been since the 1980s as they started to build out the digital distribution system for FM.

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