Preparing My SBT Systems For Streaming: TIDAL, Spotify, Others

[jeromeharris]

> -- for my bedroom SBT, get another fanless PC or equivalent device to

No. If already you have a computer running LMS, you should make it
available to all SB devices.

> host LMS--OR somehow extend my living room fanless PC's WiFi's reach so
> I can put the bedroom SBT on that network

Yes, that's the way to go. WiFi improvement, or powerline adapter. Or
even a good old ethernet cable.

> -- update the LMS software in my SBTs and my mini-PC to 7.9, or at least
> update my bedroom SBT to 7.8.0 (currently, my bedroom SBT is running

No need to update the devices. I'd suggest updating LMS on the PC, just
because 7.9 has some nice improvements.

> -- for accessing TIDAL, install the ickStream Open Beta for Squeezebox
> plug in on my audio PC, then set up a TIDAL account and point an SBT to
> it;

Not really needed. Just go to mysqueezebox.com to enable TIDAL.

> -- for now, give up on accessing Spotify because Spotty does not run on
> Windows.

Spotify runs perfectly well on Windows. Only the Connect mode wouldn't
work on Windows: you can't control playback from the Spotify app. As
long as you're staying in the SB/LMS world, Spotty will work perfectly fine.

> I have not yet figured out how to update my bedroom SBT's software to
> 7.8.0 or 7.9; can someone point me to instructions for that?

No need to bother. If you connect your SBT to LMS, it'll get the latest
firmware automatically (7.8). And it's not really needed anyway.

> By the way, on my living-room SBT, under "Squeezebox Information", there
> is a list of plug-ins that I never installed (!), but that look
> interesting to me given my interest in exploring music streaming (my
> bedroom SBT shows no such list). The list includes classical.com,
> Deezer, MOG, Pandora, Rhapsody, SiriusXM...comments/advice? Are they
> actually installed and useable? Are they residing on that SBT, or on its
> PC? Would I need another fanless PC (or similar) to enable my bedroom
> SBT to access those services?

These plugins are part of LMS. I suggest you review the list and
actually disable a whole bunch of them, as you hardly use them all...


--

Michael

[jeromeharris]

Preparing My SBT Systems For Streaming: TIDAL, Spotify, Others

Dear SBT Community:

I have a few questions...

I own and use two SBTs: one I have been using (at my bedroom desk) exclusively to play Internet radiostreams via its analog RCA audio outputs connected to a pair of powered speakers. The one in the living room--while sometimes also playing Web radio--primarily plays FLAC files I've ripped to a hard drive (connected to the SBT via a fanless mini-PC running LMS on Windows 7); the bits flow from the SBT's coaxial output to an Oppo BDP-105D; the audio goes into the living room's audio system.

I'm now interested in joining much of the rest of the 21st century in exploring music streaming services (for general exploration of the medium, for low-cost accessing recordings for study [I'm a musician], and for trying out music to decide whether I want to own it [via physical media or downloads--I do try to support artists through purchases], or whether occasional online access is sufficient]. A secondary interest is checking out some hi-res recordings, to see whether they're worth investing in. I'm currently planning to subscribe to TIDAL [I intend to decide between their standard ("Premium"--ah, adjective inflation!) and lossless ("HiFi") options by listening during their 12-day free trial period], although I also want access to Spotify as well (depending on how their catalogs fit my eclectic listening, I might even--sigh--subscribe to both).

In reading posts here, it seems--please check my understanding and advise!--that what I need to do is to:

-- for my bedroom SBT, get another fanless PC or equivalent device to host LMS--OR somehow extend my living room fanless PC's WiFi's reach so I can put the bedroom SBT on that network (I've been keeping the living room fanless PC and SBT off of my home WiFi network for listening to my hard drive files);
-- update the LMS software in my SBTs and my mini-PC to 7.9, or at least update my bedroom SBT to 7.8.0 (currently, my bedroom SBT is running version 7.7.3 r16676; the living room SBT has 7.8.0 r16754; the living room PC has 7.8.0 1394196562);
-- for accessing TIDAL, install the ickStream Open Beta for Squeezebox plug in on my audio PC, then set up a TIDAL account and point the SBT to it;
-- for now, give up on accessing Spotify because Spotty does not run on Windows;
-- install the EDO plug-in on my Oppo-connected SBT (and perhaps buy an external DAC for the bedroom set-up).

Is the above "how-to" list correct for implementing my goals?

I have not yet figured out how to update my bedroom SBT's software to 7.8.0 or 7.9; can someone point me to instructions for that?

By the way, on my living-room SBT, under "Squeezebox Information", there is a list of plug-ins that I never installed (!), but that look interesting to me given my interest in exploring music streaming (my bedroom SBT shows no such list). The list includes classical.com, Deezer, MOG, Pandora, Rhapsody, SiriusXM...comments/advice? Are they actually installed and useable? Are they residing on that SBT, or on its PC? Would I need another fanless PC (or similar) to enable my bedroom SBT to access those services?

Thanks!

[slartibartfast]

Dear SBT Community:

I have a few questions...

I own and use two SBTs: one I have been using (at my bedroom desk) exclusively to play Internet radiostreams via its analog RCA audio outputs connected to a pair of powered speakers. The one in the living room--while sometimes also playing Web radio--primarily plays FLAC files I've ripped to a hard drive (connected to the SBT via a fanless mini-PC running LMS on Windows 7); the bits flow from the SBT's coaxial output to an Oppo BDP-105D; the audio goes into the living room's audio system.

I'm now interested in joining much of the rest of the 21st century in exploring music streaming services (for general exploration of the medium, for low-cost accessing recordings for study [I'm a musician], and for trying out music to decide whether I want to own it [via physical media or downloads--I do try to support artists through purchases], or whether occasional online access is sufficient]. A secondary interest is checking out some hi-res recordings, to see whether they're worth investing in. I'm currently planning to subscribe to TIDAL [I intend to decide between their standard ("Premium"--ah, adjective inflation!) and lossless ("HiFi") options by listening during their 12-day free trial period], although I also want access to Spotify as well (depending on how their catalogs fit my eclectic listening, I might even--sigh--subscribe to both).

In reading posts here, it seems--please check my understanding and advise!--that what I need to do is to:

-- for my bedroom SBT, get another fanless PC or equivalent device to host LMS--OR somehow extend my living room fanless PC's WiFi's reach so I can put the bedroom SBT on that network (I've been keeping the living room fanless PC and SBT off of my home WiFi network for listening to my hard drive files);
-- update the LMS software in my SBTs and my mini-PC to 7.9, or at least update my bedroom SBT to 7.8.0 (currently, my bedroom SBT is running version 7.7.3 r16676; the living room SBT has 7.8.0 r16754; the living room PC has 7.8.0 1394196562);
-- for accessing TIDAL, install the ickStream Open Beta for Squeezebox plug in on my audio PC, then set up a TIDAL account and point the SBT to it;
-- for now, give up on accessing Spotify because Spotty does not run on Windows;
-- install the EDO plug-in on my Oppo-connected SBT (and perhaps buy an external DAC for the bedroom set-up).

Is the above "how-to" list correct for implementing my goals?

I have not yet figured out how to update my bedroom SBT's software to 7.8.0 or 7.9; can someone point me to instructions for that?

By the way, on my living-room SBT, under "Squeezebox Information", there is a list of plug-ins that I never installed (!), but that look interesting to me given my interest in exploring music streaming (my bedroom SBT shows no such list). The list includes classical.com, Deezer, MOG, Pandora, Rhapsody, SiriusXM...comments/advice? Are they actually installed and useable? Are they residing on that SBT, or on its PC? Would I need another fanless PC (or similar) to enable my bedroom SBT to access those services?

Thanks!

I think the first thing you need to do is connect your server and all your Squeezeboxes to your router. Use Ethernet cable for the server and either cable or WiFi for the Squeezeboxes.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[jeromeharris]

If already you have a computer running LMS, you should make it
available to all SB devices.

> host LMS--OR somehow extend my living room fanless PC's WiFi's reach so
> I can put the bedroom SBT on that network

Yes, that's the way to go. WiFi improvement, or powerline adapter. Or
even a good old ethernet cable.

I think the first thing you need to do is connect your server and all your Squeezeboxes to your router. Use Ethernet cable for the server and either cable or WiFi for the Squeezeboxes.

Aha!

Related questions:

[1] To lessen the chance of malware infecting my audio PC--which does run LMS--and the music-files hard drive connected to it (and to keep unexpected alerts, software updates and etc. from possibly interrupting audio that's playing), I have been connecting my audio PC to my home network *only when necessary* for Windows updates and such--when I've wanted to listen to Web radio on that system, I've connected that SBT to our home network, then disconnected it when finished. Is this going too far, security-wise and avoiding-audio-interruptions-wise? Does leaving a computer-based music system connected to the wide wild Internet raise malware/hacking/security vulnerabilities, and what's your advice for protecting the system against them?;

[2] Since cabling my bedroom SBT to my audio PC is not practical for me (it would involve running more than 100 meters of Ethernet cable through a wall/doorway, past wall-mounted kitchen cabinets in a cosmetically acceptable way, etc.), my options are "WiFi improvement" and "powerline adapter". I suspect that extending the WiFi reach of my audio PC via powerline adapter would be the easiest option--however, I already use a powerline adapter pair to extend the reach of our existing broadband network from our bedroom (where our ISP service enters our apartment) to our living room. Can two powerline-adapter systems be used near each other, each extending a different WiFi network, without causing interference problems for those networks? Our apartment has enough electrical outlets so the adapter boxes would not share outlets.

Having an audio-only WiFi "sub-network" sounds really useful to me (for instance, I recall reading somewhere that multiple SBTs on one network can play independent streams at the same time), if I can implement it without undue expense and physical hassle.

Jerome

[krochat]

Having an audio-only WiFi "sub-network" sounds really useful to me (for instance, I recall reading somewhere that multiple SBTs on one network can play independent streams at the same time), if I can implement it without undue expense and physical hassle.
Jerome

I suspect you're the only person in the world who doesn't run LMS/SBT on their main network. You already have your main network (ISP drop) in the bedroom, just use that. Run whatever malware/antivirus protection you use on your main computer on your LMS PC. LMS doesn't use that much network bandwidth and I doubt you'll ever get dropouts.

[garym]

I suggest a single network. Put your PC running LMS on that network. Use standard firewall/anti-virus software on the PC running LMS and you'll be fine.

however, I already use a powerline adapter pair to extend the reach of our existing broadband network from our bedroom (where our ISP service enters our apartment) to our living room. Can two powerline-adapter systems be used near each other, each extending a different WiFi network, without causing interference problems for those networks? Our apartment has enough electrical outlets so the adapter boxes would not share outlets.

Why do you need two powerline adapters near each other. I use powerlines in one location. I have an adapter near the router. Then another near a player and another near another player. My powerline adapters can have multiple points and they all talk back to the same router. They are not "separate" powerline systems. If you need more than one ethernet connection at the powerline adapter location, you can simply have a small "dumb" ethernet switch (I have several that are 4, 5, or 10 slot switches). Plug the switch into the powerline eithernet. Then plug other ethernet cables into the switch. One can also buy powerline switches that have two ethernet cable receptacles per adapter.

Having an audio-only WiFi "sub-network" sounds really useful to me (for instance, I recall reading somewhere that multiple SBTs on one network can play independent streams at the same time), if I can implement it without undue expense and physical hassle.

This is true, but unrelated to having a separate WIFI sub-network. I have a single home network. I can connect to the router with either ethernet or wifi. Some of my Squeezebox players are wifi connected and some ethernet. I can play the same thing to all of the players or different things to each room.

[toby10]

...... Does leaving a computer-based music system connected to the wide wild Internet raise malware/hacking/security vulnerabilities.......

Not really. The vast majority of security issues are due to an action taken by an authorized user already on the network. Open infected email or attachment, clicking bad links, visiting infected web sites, etc... Your specific network being targeted and then successfully accessed is not a real concern if you have basic protection of firewall (router & computer) and anti-virus on and up to date.

So you are way over complicating your network while gaining a minuscule security benefit. It would be like going through great effort and complications to disguise your front door from unwanted intruders...... instead of simply locking the same door.

[jeromeharris]

Folks:

Thanks to your great info, I'm making progress ! So far, I have:

-- bought and installed new powerline network adapters (the new ones claim to have faster throughput rates than our old ones), including one that my audio PC system is wired to;

-- updated my audio PC's LMS to 7.9.1 (and installed the Windows Visual C++ runtime libraries, to fix a "can't start LMS 'cause vcruntime140.dll is missing" problem that cropped up);

-- updated the firmware in my bedroom SBT from 7.7.3 to 7.8.0;

-- installed the Spotty and EDO plug-ins (gotta copy the one hi-res album I own onto the hard drive, to test EDO; I also must set up TIDAL and Spotify accounts to try those out).

There is one problem (for now... ) that I haven't been able to solve: I can't get the bedroom SBT connected to the audio PC/LMS system, even though they should all be on the same network. The symptoms/observations are:

-- the bedroom SBT will play radio streams, but tells me that it can't connect to LMS whenever I try to switch to the PC/LMS system (its diagnostics tell me that Ethernet is connected, and that wireless is not. To verify that, I pulled out the SBT-network router Ethernet cable while listening to a Web radio stream--the sound stopped. When I re-connected that cable, the station's sound returned once the network connection was re-established);

-- when I brought the bedroom SBT to the living room and Ethernetted it to the audio PC system for updating its firmware, it showed that Spotty was installed on the PC; when I brought it back to the bedroom and re-connected it to the router, it no longer listed Spotty in "My Apps";

--when I open LMS on the audio PC, it shows the presence of the living room SBT in both the Web interface and in Settings. However, the only sign of the bedroom SBT is in the Web interface, where it is one of three players listed (along with the living room SBT, and mysqueezebox.com)--I assume that is a legacy of having had the bedroom SBT cabled to the system earlier for updating its firmware. When I try to select the bedroom SBT as the player, LMS asks if I want to switch that SBT from its mysqueezebox.com connection--I click "yes", but nothing effectively happens.

What am I missing, for getting my bedroom SBT "talking" to the rest of the system?

Best wishes for 2018 to toby10, krochat, garym, slartibartfast and mherger--and to everyone else on this great forum!
Jerome

[garym]

What happens with the Bedroom Touch when (on the Touch screen) you select "my music" from the menu. Does it offer the option of connecting to your LMS Library?

[krochat]

--when I open LMS on the audio PC, it shows the presence of the living room SBT in both the Web interface and in Settings. However, the only sign of the bedroom SBT is in the Web interface, where it is one of three players listed (along with the living room SBT, and mysqueezebox.com)--I assume that is a legacy of having had the bedroom SBT cabled to the system earlier for updating its firmware. When I try to select the bedroom SBT as the player, LMS asks if I want to switch that SBT from its mysqueezebox.com connection--I click "yes", but nothing effectively happens.

To be clear, you're now running your bedroom SBT and LMS PC on the main network, not the second network?

In any case, can the LMS PC see the bedroom SBT?

1) On the bedroom SBT, go to Settings->Advanced->Squeezebox Information->Squeezebox Touch Information and write down the IP field. It should be something like 192.168.1.100.

2) Go to the LMS PC, open a command prompt, and enter "ping <IP>", where <IP> is the number you got from the SBT.

3) Tell us what happens.

4) While you have the LMS PC command prompt open, you might as well run "ipconfig /all" and post the results of that command too.

Kim

[slartibartfast]

Folks:

Thanks to your great info, I'm making progress ! So far, I have:

-- bought and installed new powerline network adapters (the new ones claim to have faster throughput rates than our old ones), including one that my audio PC system is wired to;

-- updated my audio PC's LMS to 7.9.1 (and installed the Windows Visual C++ runtime libraries, to fix a "can't start LMS 'cause vcruntime140.dll is missing" problem that cropped up);

-- updated the firmware in my bedroom SBT from 7.7.3 to 7.8.0;

-- installed the Spotty and EDO plug-ins (gotta copy the one hi-res album I own onto the hard drive, to test EDO; I also must set up TIDAL and Spotify accounts to try those out).

There is one problem (for now... ) that I haven't been able to solve: I can't get the bedroom SBT connected to the audio PC/LMS system, even though they should all be on the same network. The symptoms/observations are:

-- the bedroom SBT will play radio streams, but tells me that it can't connect to LMS whenever I try to switch to the PC/LMS system (its diagnostics tell me that Ethernet is connected, and that wireless is not. To verify that, I pulled out the SBT-network router Ethernet cable while listening to a Web radio stream--the sound stopped. When I re-connected that cable, the station's sound returned once the network connection was re-established);

-- when I brought the bedroom SBT to the living room and Ethernetted it to the audio PC system for updating its firmware, it showed that Spotty was installed on the PC; when I brought it back to the bedroom and re-connected it to the router, it no longer listed Spotty in "My Apps";

--when I open LMS on the audio PC, it shows the presence of the living room SBT in both the Web interface and in Settings. However, the only sign of the bedroom SBT is in the Web interface, where it is one of three players listed (along with the living room SBT, and mysqueezebox.com)--I assume that is a legacy of having had the bedroom SBT cabled to the system earlier for updating its firmware. When I try to select the bedroom SBT as the player, LMS asks if I want to switch that SBT from its mysqueezebox.com connection--I click "yes", but nothing effectively happens.

What am I missing, for getting my bedroom SBT "talking" to the rest of the system?

Best wishes for 2018 to toby10, krochat, garym, slartibartfast and mherger--and to everyone else on this great forum!
Jerome

Are all the Powerline Adaptors on the same network?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[jeromeharris]

To be clear, you're now running your bedroom SBT and LMS PC on the main network, not the second network?

In any case, can the LMS PC see the bedroom SBT?

1) On the bedroom SBT, go to Settings->Advanced->Squeezebox Information->Squeezebox Touch Information and write down the IP field. It should be something like 192.168.1.100.

2) Go to the LMS PC, open a command prompt, and enter "ping <IP>", where <IP> is the number you got from the SBT.

3) Tell us what happens.

4) While you have the LMS PC command prompt open, you might as well run "ipconfig /all" and post the results of that command too.

Kim

My bedroom SBT's IP address (when it's Ethernet-cabled to the powerline adapter) is 100.38.105.154...below is the result of pinging that address from my audio PC:



And below (in two windows) is the result of running ipconfig:

What happens with the Bedroom Touch when (on the Touch screen) you select "my music" from the menu. Does it offer the option of connecting to your LMS Library?

It tries to connect to the Audio PC (labeled "fitPC3), but the attempt fails--I get the "we couldn't connect to..." error message.

Are all the Powerline Adaptors on the same network?

I am not sure that they are--I'd love suggestions for the best way to test that.

Jerome

[krochat]

My bedroom SBT's IP address (when it's Ethernet-cabled to the powerline adapter) is 100.38.105.154...below is the result of pinging that address from my audio PC:

Your LMS PC is 192.168.1.100, so the SBT and PC are on two different subnetworks. I'm surprised that the LMS PC can ping the SBT, and wouldn't be at all surprised if the SBT can't see the PC, although I don't know much about the LMS network architecture.

If I were debugging this I'd work on finding out why the SBT doesn't have a 192.168.1.* IP address. Routers normally assign IP addresses - how many routers do you have and how are they connected to the two networks?

Regards,
Kim

[slartibartfast]

I am not sure that they are--I'd love suggestions for the best way to test that.

Jerome

You should be able to use the software utility that came with the Powerline adaptors to tell you if they are connected. Plug the PC running the utility into one of the adaptors and it will find others on the same network.
If they are not connected you need to pair them similarly to this for TP Link adaptors.

http://www.tp-link.com/us/faq-319.html

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[jeromeharris]

Your LMS PC is 192.168.1.100, so the SBT and PC are on two different subnetworks. I'm surprised that the LMS PC can ping the SBT, and wouldn't be at all surprised if the SBT can't see the PC, although I don't know much about the LMS network architecture.

If I were debugging this I'd work on finding out why the SBT doesn't have a 192.168.1.* IP address. Routers normally assign IP addresses - how many routers do you have and how are they connected to the two networks?

Regards,
Kim

Once I have a bit more time, I will post a more detailed answer about our (my wife and I ) routers. A brief summary:

-- WAN data connects (from our ISP's fiber-optic system box in our bedroom) to an Apple Airport Extreme (our two printers are cabled to it);
-- to extend data service to the other end of our apartment, a powerline adapter in the same bedroom is cabled to the bedroom Airport Extreme;
-- another powerline adapter lives in our dining area (near where my wife generally works)--that adapter is cabled to another Airport Extreme which serves as a WiFi extender. We had a tech set that up because WiFi service in that end of our place was intermittent--now it's quite solid;
-- in the living room that adjoins our dining/work area lives my LMS PC, its music hard drive, a SBT,and an old router that I (possibly incorrectly ) configured as a switch to connect the SBT to the LMS PC. That router is now cabled to a third powerline adapter;
-- returning to the bedroom, the other SBT--previously used only for Internet radio via WiFi connection to our WiFi network--is cabled to the bedroom Airport.

I've been hoping to have the three powerline adapters provide a wired connection between the bedroom SBT and the front-of-house LMS PC/hard drive/SBT system. Perhaps I should disconnect both cables from both SBTs, turn on the LMS PC's WiFi, and see if the bedroom SBT can find it wirelessly.

I wonder if my router-as-switch is somehow set up wrongly, thus preventing the bedroom SBT from "seeing" the LMS PC. If any of you are router-as-switch savvy, I'd love suggestions about what to check in its software and cabling configuration (although there might be enough info out there on the Web for me to figure it out eventually). I will do some probing in a few days.

Hmm...that was a bit more detailed than I intended for this moment! I did omit stuff about which device is plugged into LAN jacks versus WAN jacks--more later...

You should be able to use the software utility that came with the Powerline adaptors to tell you if they are connected. Plug the PC running the utility into one of the adaptors and it will find others on the same network.
If they are not connected you need to pair them similarly to this for TP Link adaptors.
http://www.tp-link.com/us/faq-319.html

I did that "pairing" when I replaced the old powerline adapters with the new ones--today I "re-paired" them. The software utility reports the following:



Given that I paired the dining room adapter to the bedroom one, then the audio PC one to the living room one, I expected the utility to show a bedroom-dining room-audio line, instead of the "V" shown above--the V is what I got both when I first installed the adapters, and when I re-installed the dining room and audio boxes today; I don't know why.

Jerome