View Full Version : A few questions before buying the Touch
realmassy
2010-05-01, 04:09
I think I'll give the new Touch a try the next week, and I have some questions before buying it.
I used to own a Duet, but I didn't like the setup too much, the pc always on (I had a SheevaPlug), a dedicated router...
Currently I'm using a Teac Wap, and it works perfectly: I have an external disc attached to one of the two USB, I don't need any PC, and it comes with a nice Touch remote controller.
But, the new Squeezebox Touch is said to have a better digital output (I use an external dac) and it comes with a built-in Squeezebox Server.
My idea is to attach the same HD (with its own power adapter) to the touch, connect the touch to the wifi, and use my IPhone + IPeng as remote. I don't have any plan to listen to high resolution files, but this would be an obvious plus.
My question is: can you see any problem with a setup like this? I've read there are some issues playing high resolution files from the attached drive, but what about 16/44 FLAC files? Also, can you safely use the IPhone and IPeng as controller? Can you set the digital output level to 100%?
Thanks in advance.
Can you set the digital output level to 100%?
Yes, that is possible...
Out-of-the-box, no. There's an open enhancement request for that (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14807).
But it is possible, either by hand or by installing Erland's Patch Installer applet and then my "Volume Fixed at 100%" patch as described here (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77837).
Phil Leigh
2010-05-02, 00:47
I think I'll give the new Touch a try the next week, and I have some questions before buying it.
I used to own a Duet, but I didn't like the setup too much, the pc always on (I had a SheevaPlug), a dedicated router...
Currently I'm using a Teac Wap, and it works perfectly: I have an external disc attached to one of the two USB, I don't need any PC, and it comes with a nice Touch remote controller.
But, the new Squeezebox Touch is said to have a better digital output (I use an external dac) and it comes with a built-in Squeezebox Server.
My idea is to attach the same HD (with its own power adapter) to the touch, connect the touch to the wifi, and use my IPhone + IPeng as remote. I don't have any plan to listen to high resolution files, but this would be an obvious plus.
My question is: can you see any problem with a setup like this? I've read there are some issues playing high resolution files from the attached drive, but what about 16/44 FLAC files? Also, can you safely use the IPhone and IPeng as controller? Can you set the digital output level to 100%?
Thanks in advance.
There are no serious issues (ie that can't be lived with or worked around for a while) with USB playback of hi-res FLAC.
Certainly FLAC 16/44.1 or 24/48 has no issues.
higher-res has 2 issues:
SOME 24/96 files at flac -8 can stutter...simply re-flac them to -5
When skipping tracks at 24/96 you can get a momentary loss of lock from an external DAC - this will be fixed in firmware at some point soonish...
This lst problem doesn't affect normal playback, only when you jump mid-track to another track. This problem also affects SBS playback.
realmassy
2010-05-02, 01:00
Thanks for your reply.
I'm wondering whether the sluggishness of the scan using the built-in server could be a problem.
Is there any work-around to build the database on a pc and then re-attach the drive? Some people seem to have problems with big music collections.
As I posted in a different thread maybe the scanning from the external drive using the tiny server could be optimized, maybe handling less tags, or loading the extra tags on demand.
One more question, can I use a squeezebox server on my laptop and still attach the USB drive to the Touch? I don't have any NAS at the moment, but my laptop is almost always on, but obviously I can't attach a drive and move it with me. If the hard drive is shared in the network through Samba, then this could work from me.
Thanks
Is there any work-around to build the database on a pc and then re-attach the drive?
No, at least no easy one.
Theoretically it's just a SQLite database so suspect it should be possible to create it off line, the problem is just that the paths are probably going to be different if you mount the USB drive on a PC.
Some people seem to have problems with big music collections.
If you have a large collection, I'd personally advice you to run a standalone server. Get a Vortexbox or Sheevaplug or use an old PC/laptop, you will avoid a lot of problems.
As I posted in a different thread maybe the scanning from the external drive using the tiny server could be optimized, maybe handling less tags, or loading the extra tags on demand.
Scanning is normally only an issue the first time.
The problem is for people with large collection where the first time "never" finish. I'm not sure what Logitech's perspective is on this, they can either ignore the problems and state that large collections aren't supported or optimize the code to decrease the functionality even more. I personally don't think the number of tags is the problem, the problem is probably more related to the number of files that needs to be handled.
One more question, can I use a squeezebox server on my laptop and still attach the USB drive to the Touch? I don't have any NAS at the moment, but my laptop is almost always on, but obviously I can't attach a drive and move it with me. If the hard drive is shared in the network through Samba, then this could work from me.
The drive is shared with samba, so this should work.
realmassy
2010-05-02, 02:00
Thanks Erland.
It sounds if I'll go with the Touch route I definitely need an external server, probably I'd choose a Vortexbox appliance, so I have the storage as well. But I have to sort the issue with the network out. The Vortexbox has no wi-fi capability, and I can't put the appliance near the router (my wife would kill me). Anyone has experience with network over mains?
Do a search in these forums for Homeplug or Powerline, there are tons of posts.
realmassy
2010-05-02, 03:15
Do a search in these forums for Homeplug or Powerline, there are tons of posts.
Cheers! :-)
Do a search in these forums for Homeplug or Powerline, there are tons of posts.
Yeah, some folks love it, but it didn't work well at all for some of us (including me -- I tried to connect the kitchen Squeezebox with Homeplug to prevent wireless dropouts when the microwave oven runs, but ended up just adding a WDS wireless extender). My SBS box connects to an old Linksys router running third-party firmware (Tomato, DD-WRT, etc.) to act as a wireless bridge. I'm able to stream not just audio, but even standard definition video. Does Vortexbox not support USB wifi adapters?
FYI, I have had really excellent results with a Powerline unit. My router to the downstairs PC via the Powerline, then to our Duet via ethernet. I had tremendous difficulty getting a stable internet connection to that computer (I tried every wireless receiver/antenna I could find). Went to the Powerline approach and haven't had a single problem for about 15 months.
Dave
Yeah, some folks love it, but it didn't work well at all for some of us (including me -- I tried to connect the kitchen Squeezebox with Homeplug to prevent wireless dropouts when the microwave oven runs, but ended up just adding a WDS wireless extender). My SBS box connects to an old Linksys router running third-party firmware (Tomato, DD-WRT, etc.) to act as a wireless bridge. I'm able to stream not just audio, but even standard definition video. Does Vortexbox not support USB wifi adapters?
True. Never used them myself.
What was the issue with yours? Noisy line? Wrong circuit?
realmassy
2010-05-02, 08:34
Does Vortexbox not support USB wifi adapters?
As far as I'm aware it doesn't.
I think I prefer a SheevaPlug with a USB drive attached, though. It's so small I can put it close to the router, and my wife won't noticed it :-D
The Touch would be in the same room, about 5 meters from the router, so I should be able to stream wireless even high resolution files.
Any network issues in this case?
Can I safely assume the audio quality of the digital output of the Touch is the same when connected wirelessly?
Any issues with the SheevaPlug processor?
Is it powerful enough to decode 96/24 files? I used to own a SheevaPlug for my Duet, but I sold it thinking I'd have never used it with the Touch :-)
Sorry for all these questions, but I want to make sure I can have a good setup :-)
What was the issue with yours? Noisy line? Wrong circuit?
The effect was low bandwidth and erratic performance. I don't know what the cause was. In addition to the technical problems, Homeplug was more expensive and uglier than WDS (I was able to hide my WDS extender) and WDS also helps with wifi coverage in my yard. WDS did not completely solve the microwave oven problems, but for me it's better than Homeplug in every respect. But, as I said, others love it. BTW, what do Homeplug users do for surge protection? The devices I bought said nothing about protection, so if they'd worked, would I need an Ethernet surge protector to protect my Squeezebox from damage?
As far as I'm aware it doesn't.
I think I prefer a SheevaPlug with a USB drive attached, though. It's so small I can put it close to the router, and my wife won't noticed it :-D
The Touch would be in the same room, about 5 meters from the router, so I should be able to stream wireless even high resolution files.
Any network issues in this case?
Can I safely assume the audio quality of the digital output of the Touch is the same when connected wirelessly?
Any issues with the SheevaPlug processor?
Is it powerful enough to decode 96/24 files? I used to own a SheevaPlug for my Duet, but I sold it thinking I'd have never used it with the Touch :-)
Sorry for all these questions, but I want to make sure I can have a good setup :-)
But if it is in the same room as the router it's completely nuts to not use wired ethernet !! :confused:
Wifi is not a real network, ethernet is so much better than even a "perfect" wifi setup.
In general only use wireless when the application demands it, a laptop an iPhone or an controller is, well portable you can't have wires hanging out of that stuff :-)
Save your wifi capacity for that stuff .
Things that sits in the same place all the time can be wired.
Unless your walls are such that you need professionals to make the holes.
Also you can free some wifi capacity by wire other stuff that seems unrelated to your squeezebox system, you don't want somebody else in the household to download torrents over wifi at the same time if you are using it for the music
Also Touch use slightly more CPU on wifi .
And filling up the buffer goes slower with 24/96 files over wifi you can get a small glitch when the first track in an Hirez playlist starts or when skipping in 24/96 files
realmassy
2010-05-02, 12:06
But if it is in the same room as the router it's completely nuts to not use wired ethernet !! :confused:
Wifi is not a real network, ethernet is so much better than even a "perfect" wifi setup.
In general only use wireless when the application demands it, a laptop an iPhone or an controller is, well portable you can't have wires hanging out of that stuff :-)
Save your wifi capacity for that stuff .
Things that sits in the same place all the time can be wired.
Unless your walls are such that you need professionals to make the holes.
Also you can free some wifi capacity by wire other stuff that seems unrelated to your squeezebox system, you don't want somebody else in the household to download torrents over wifi at the same time if you are using it for the music
Also Touch use slightly more CPU on wifi .
And filling up the buffer goes slower with 24/96 files over wifi you can get a small glitch when the first track in an Hirez playlist starts or when skipping in 24/96 files
LOL
No way I can pass a ethernet cable in my lounge :-) And I've just finished to decorate the house so no holes in the wall.
This is the reason I used to have a dedicated router when I owned the Duet, and this is the reason I'm using now the Teac: it works perfectly with a USB drive.
If I can't use the wireless for the Touch I can try the network over mains. Or probably I'll stick with the Teac :-)
Thanks anyway for your honest replies.
crimscrem
2010-05-02, 13:46
There was talk earlier in this thread about large collections and how they perform on the Touch. What is considered to be a large collection? I have about 23,000 songs (600 GB) on an external HD connected via USB to the Touch. It'll take at least 40 seconds to get a song selected to play. Once it plays, there are no problems as it moves through the album. If I try to select a song from a different album, while a song is playing, then it either slows down and I get a message saying the Touch is trying to connect to the USB or it pulls up the album after about 40 seconds or so. I have no idea why this is happening. The scan was completed without any interruptions.
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