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Dave (Northumberland)
2010-04-23, 08:37
My Touch seems to be behaving differently each time I use it. I updated the firmware initially but am now using it 'offline' just plugging a external HDD into it and playing FLACs direct from there with no Ethernet or wifi.

1# It won't turn off! It won't power down at all no matter what I do. I turn the HDD off when I am finished using it and then have to pull the power cable out the back of the Touch, there is no other way. I have found the small power button above the power socket on the back which turns it off but it just powers itself up again after 4 seconds (even when the HDD isn't plugged in) and it wont even go onto standby, has anyone else encountered this issue?

2# When I turn it back on again sometimes it gives me an option to run without a network connection, but sometimes it just has the wired or wireless options to choose from. I often have to keep re-starting a few times before getting the run without network option. There is no global setting to turn off the network connection in the main menu, this would be great for people like me who want to use it as a stand alone player!

3# Once I have managed to get to this stage it sometimes just doesn't recognise my HDD at all. Again I have to just turn the HDD off and on and sometimes power down the Touch a few times before it will without warning just find my HDD again.

All these things strike me as being the kind of software glitches I was hoping would have been ironed out during the long release delay which I gather was just to glitch fix. I have been looking through this and other forums and havn't really seen these particular problems listed, is it just me or is anyone else having the same problems.

No problems with playback of 24 bit FLACs and sound quality is brilliant on a positive side!

Thanks for any help and or advice in advance.

Dave.

bpa
2010-04-23, 08:50
I have found the small power button above the power socket on the back which turns it off but it just powers itself up again after 4 seconds (even when the HDD isn't plugged in) and it wont even go onto standby, has anyone else encountered this issue?


The button is a reset button not a power off button.

There is no power off with Touch - when you use the soft power buttong it goes into an "off" state but it remains powered on and it will still show a screensaver unless the screen saver is set to screen off.

snarlydwarf
2010-04-23, 08:50
My Touch seems to be behaving differently each time I use it. I updated the firmware initially but am now using it 'offline' just plugging a external HDD into it and playing FLACs direct from there with no Ethernet or wifi.

1# It won't turn off! It won't power down at all no matter what I do. I turn the HDD off when I am finished using it and then have to pull the power cable out the back of the Touch, there is no other way. I have found the small power button above the power socket on the back which turns it off but it just powers itself up again after 4 seconds (even when the HDD isn't plugged in) and it wont even go onto standby, has anyone else encountered this issue?

That's not a power switch, it's a reset button.

To turn it off, at the top left corner of the main menu screen there is a power icon (a circle with a stick in it... I dunno why this is the "universal" power icon...).

Note that it won't ever (unless you unplug it) actually turn OFF. This is normal on SB products: if it was really off, alarms wouldn't work, nor would you be able to use the remote to turn it back on, and you couldn't control it from the WebUI....) The only exception is the radio which has a hold-to-really-power-off button.

Why do you need to keep powering it off? "Standby" (which is what that power button the main menu does) uses hardly any electricity at all.

Do you unplug your tv, cable box, microwave, etc?

Ali Tait
2010-04-23, 09:08
Yes,a few have had problems getting the Touch into standby.Mine was the same,however it seems to have resolved itself.Let it connect to your network.

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 09:50
Do you unplug your tv, cable box, microwave, etc?

Just to make sure snarlydwarf statement is not missed. This is a very important thing to understand. Many consumer electronics are never truly off if they are plugged in. If they went to a truly no power state then many of the features of the device would not operate, i.e. soft-touch power buttons and remotes.

The touch uses very little power when in "standby". I am not sure if it powers down the LCD when the screensaver is set to "off" but if it does then it is even less power.

What is your requirement for "off"?

Dave (Northumberland)
2010-04-23, 10:07
That's not a power switch, it's a reset button.

To turn it off, at the top left corner of the main menu screen there is a power icon (a circle with a stick in it... I dunno why this is the "universal" power icon...).

Note that it won't ever (unless you unplug it) actually turn OFF. This is normal on SB products: if it was really off, alarms wouldn't work, nor would you be able to use the remote to turn it back on, and you couldn't control it from the WebUI....) The only exception is the radio which has a hold-to-really-power-off button.

Why do you need to keep powering it off? "Standby" (which is what that power button the main menu does) uses hardly any electricity at all.

Do you unplug your tv, cable box, microwave, etc?

When I said off I meant standby, it wont go onto standby even! I have no home network to speak of and I really dont need or want one. It does go into stanby when I plug my single Ethernet cable (from modem) into the back of it but this needs to be plugged into my PC. I have no need or want to use the Touch on a network, I just want to use it as a stand alone player with a HDD. Without being able to put it into standby the HDD stays on and I have to then turn the HDD by hand, and then have the trouble of getting it all up and runing again when I turn the HDD back on again. I dont mind having the Touch on standby but the HDD gets very hot in constant use and the fan in it hums too much at night.

Also, the power button on the screen menu and the the remote both do nothing at all.

Ali Tait
2010-04-23, 10:26
Yes as I said,mine did the same thing.Connect it to the pc you're running Squeezeserver on.This resolved the problem in my case.

Dave (Northumberland)
2010-04-23, 10:36
Yes as I said,mine did the same thing.Connect it to the pc you're running Squeezeserver on.This resolved the problem in my case.

Im not running Squeezeserver on my PC and dont really want to install it on my PC. I have a lot of pro audio recording stuff on my PC and i find that things like Squeezeserver can often mess with my PC audio settings. I have just tried doing a factory re-set and plugging the Ethenet in to re-set the clock. I will see if this fixes the problem (for now).

snarlydwarf
2010-04-23, 10:49
Im not running Squeezeserver on my PC and dont really want to install it on my PC. I have a lot of pro audio recording stuff on my PC and i find that things like Squeezeserver can often mess with my PC audio settings. I have just tried doing a factory re-set and plugging the Ethenet in to re-set the clock. I will see if this fixes the problem (for now).

SBS doesn't alter your PC audio settings...

It doesn't use your sound card at all.

(It's more akin to a web server with a somewhat specialized CMS than an audio player as far as the server side goes.)

toby10
2010-04-23, 11:04
When you "wake" Touch from standby and it does not see your HDD you can go to Settings > Advanced > SqueezeBox Server to start the inbuilt server (if needed).

Why (if) Touch is not running it's inbuilt server when you wake it I cannot say. HDD power down (so Touch thinks there is no HDD)?

If manually restarting the server seems to resolve this you can move the Server Status menu item to your home menu.

And, yes, I do unplug my microwave (when I can't find my tin foil hat).

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 11:17
Ok maybe his issue is related to others who have had issues with the "off" screensaver not activating.

One thing that maybe an issue for you is that the default setting for the Touch in "off" mode is to display the Clock screensaver. Well the Touch does not have a real-time clock that can maintain time while unplugged or even through reset. So I wonder if the issue is that since the Touch is unable to set the time it fails to switch to the Clock screensaver. This is strictly me going through a logic exercise and could be completely WRONG.

Have you tried changing the "off" screensaver to nothing?

Also note: "off" in squeezebox world just means stop playing music and switch immediately to the "off" screensaver. Everything else is the same so you really have no power savings from "on" and music paused.

edit: also make sure you have connected the Touch to a network to get updates, this is important.

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 11:21
Im not running Squeezeserver on my PC and dont really want to install it on my PC. I have a lot of pro audio recording stuff on my PC and i find that things like Squeezeserver can often mess with my PC audio settings. I have just tried doing a factory re-set and plugging the Ethenet in to re-set the clock. I will see if this fixes the problem (for now).

Squeezeserver is NOT audio software, it is server software. You will not have any issue with installing Squeezeserver and your audio software.

Dave (Northumberland)
2010-04-23, 11:47
Squeezeserver is NOT audio software, it is server software. You will not have any issue with installing Squeezeserver and your audio software.

After the descriptions of SBS I don't have a 'problem' with installing it. I still don't have a wireless or wired network to connect it to the Touch and really don't want to use one anyway. I waited for the Touch to use as a stand alone player that I could just turn on and play on its own. It does this just about but its a pain sometimes. It seems to be happier now after I plugged the Ethernet in to re-set the clock.

Bit disappointed with the jerky VU meters, they don't seem to track the music fast enough. I think after 6 months of updates there may be a few more advanced options so I can set it up the way I want, there are no advanced digi out options etc at the moment and alternative fonts/backgrounds for menus.

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 11:59
After the descriptions of SBS I don't have a 'problem' with installing it. I still don't have a wireless or wired network to connect it to the Touch and really don't want to use one anyway. I waited for the Touch to use as a stand alone player that I could just turn on and play on its own. It does this just about but its a pain sometimes. It seems to be happier now after I plugged the Ethernet in to re-set the clock.

Bit disappointed with the jerky VU meters, they don't seem to track the music fast enough. I think after 6 months of updates there may be a few more advanced options so I can set it up the way I want, there are no advanced digi out options etc at the moment and alternative fonts/backgrounds for menus.

Well here is your main issue. Squeezeboxes are at the heart Network Media Players, the key point being "Network". While the Touch can operate without a network, that is not really the target usage. So you may run into little niggles do to using it outside its design. That said I believe a bug has been reported concerning the clock losing time, however the solution for that most likely will be to provide some form of "blinking 12:00" since like a VCR the Touch does not have the hardware to maintain time between power resets.

The older squeezeboxes could not even maintain time without a network! They were sent time updates from the server. If they lost connection to the server they could no longer display the current time. The orignal SB design was a thin client, SqueezeOS on the newer devices is slowly evolving them to a thick client and in the case of the Touch a full server. Still growing pains on the Full Server part and that is rumored to be why the devices launch was delayed as much as it was to solve as many of those issues as possible. I am sure they are working hard to polish out those other little niggles.

However if I were you I would look into trying to get a wifi network active just so the Touch can access mysqueezecenter. That would probably help solve some of your current issues without needing to setup full on SBS.

As for the VU updates I have not tried them with the Touch running as the server so not sure how they look in that case. With them running attached to SBS the refresh I find to be pretty good, it could be smoother but I think that is more of an issue with the number of graduates it has the the refresh. Now it is possible that with the Touch acting as a server the devices refresh is slowed down and makes it jumpier.

toby10
2010-04-23, 12:30
The LCD display of a VU meter and a spectrum analyzer is just for visual eye candy. Just something fun to display.
They are not intended to be studio accurate measuring devices.

Dave (Northumberland)
2010-04-23, 12:44
The LCD display of a VU meter and a spectrum analyzer is just for visual eye candy. Just something fun to display.
They are not intended to be studio accurate measuring devices.

Yeah, it would just be more fun than the boring track scrole (I dont bother with album artwork) and I am used to studio VUs so I guess I am spoiled.

maggior
2010-04-23, 12:45
The LCD display of a VU meter and a spectrum analyzer is just for visual eye candy. Just something fun to display.
They are not intended to be studio accurate measuring devices.

True, but the same could be said for the analog VU meters on the Classic. The Classic's VU screensaver seems to be much more responsive. I find those very pleasant - the ones on the touch seem jerky and not very responsive.

I haven't tried the new onces being developed by Erland and his team of graphic designers - maybe those will perform better.

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 12:58
True, but the same could be said for the analog VU meters on the Classic. The Classic's VU screensaver seems to be much more responsive. I find those very pleasant - the ones on the touch seem jerky and not very responsive.

I haven't tried the new onces being developed by Erland and his team of graphic designers - maybe those will perform better.

Well if you grab the VUs from jstraws post using Erlands patch installer you get a much nice looking VU that has the needle pivoting instead of the odd sliding it does in the stock VU. This detail makes it a little more pleasing.

However for making it smoother it seems the VU needs more frames. If you see how jstraw had to make the graphics basically it is one image with a bunch "slides" of the VU at different needle positions, I think it needs more images with less change between needle positions. This though would require the VU meter code to be changed not just the graphic.

R Johnson
2010-04-23, 13:05
I too hoped/expected the Touch to be more of a stand-alone player. In my experience it seems to need a fairly solid internet connection, presumably to "call home". The connection is especially needed after a loss of power, such as after being relocated. Unless accessing music on/from a computer, there appears to be no need for squeeze software on the computer.

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 13:15
I too hoped/expected the Touch to be more of a stand-alone player. In my experience it seems to need a fairly solid internet connection, presumably to "call home". The connection is especially needed after a loss of power, such as after being relocated. Unless accessing music on/from a computer, there appears to be no need for squeeze software on the computer.

I guess I am use to the idea of expecting everything to be networked that I find it odd when someone expects a device like this to work without a network.

Honestly though if all you wanted was a stand alone music player why not go for something like the Archos? http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5/index.html?country=us&lang=en

It is designed to be a portable tablet but have some nice stands for desktop use. This type of device is more geared I think to how you want to use the Touch.

That said if networking the Touch is possible for you then I strongly suggest you do, it will improve the devices usefulness to you. It will add internet radio streams, and add the ability to have more than one SB device use the same music store and even allow you to sync them. Course I have 4 SB devices so I love this feature.

JohnSwenson
2010-04-23, 15:05
When I said off I meant standby, it wont go onto standby even! I have no home network to speak of and I really dont need or want one. It does go into stanby when I plug my single Ethernet cable (from modem) into the back of it but this needs to be plugged into my PC. I have no need or want to use the Touch on a network, I just want to use it as a stand alone player with a HDD. Without being able to put it into standby the HDD stays on and I have to then turn the HDD by hand, and then have the trouble of getting it all up and runing again when I turn the HDD back on again. I dont mind having the Touch on standby but the HDD gets very hot in constant use and the fan in it hums too much at night.

Also, the power button on the screen menu and the the remote both do nothing at all.

So the real issue is to be able to spin down the disk. Thats actually a different issue. There are a couple possible ways to do that from a linux device (the Touch runs linux), I will try and remember to try those out this weekend. If I can find one that works I'll throw together a quick and dirty applet you can try. It won't work from the power button, you will have to click either the spin-up or spin-down button in its own page.

The advantage of this is that it doesn't actually disconnect the drive, its still connected to the USB bus so the server is still up and running, but the drive itself is not spinning. The big advantage is that it will wake up in a few seconds and be ready to play, rather than having to start up the server and do a rescan of the disk.

This may not work, there are reports that some USB disks do not respond to the spin-down command.

John S.

R Johnson
2010-04-23, 15:13
Honestly though if all you wanted was a stand alone music player why not go for something like the Archos? http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5/index.html?country=us&lang=en ...
That said if networking the Touch is possible for you then I strongly suggest you do, it will improve the devices usefulness to you. ....
Thanks for your thoughts.

I hadn't run across the "Archos 5 Internet Tablet" before. The Touch is much more what I want.

I knew that I'd need to connect to the net to do the initial firmware installation and later updates. I did not expect its need to regularly call home. I needed to "borrow" a neighbor's (weak) wireless connection to get the clock working.

My primary location for the Touch does NOT currently have an internet connection. I simply wanted to: Play ripped CDs (and some 24/88.2 downloads) from a small portable USB disk; Have a nice small control display; and Connect to my existing audio system.

m1abrams
2010-04-23, 15:16
Thanks for your thoughts.

I hadn't run across the "Archos 5 Internet Tablet" before. The Touch is much more what I want.

I knew that I'd need to connect to the net to do the initial firmware installation and later updates. I did not expect its need to regularly call home. I needed to "borrow" a neighbor's (weak) wireless connection to get the clock working.

My primary location for the Touch does NOT currently have an internet connection. I simply wanted to: Play ripped CDs (and some 24/88.2 downloads) from a small portable USB disk; Have a nice small control display; and Connect to my existing audio system.

Well I know this is not ideal, but you do NOT need a internet connection if you have a local PC server. Its just one or the other makes things much better and usually the internet connection is the easiest for people. The local PC server would provide the clock sync that the Touch wants.

R Johnson
2010-04-23, 16:09
Well I know this is not ideal, but you do NOT need a internet connection if you have a local PC server. Its just one or the other makes things much better and usually the internet connection is the easiest for people. The local PC server would provide the clock sync that the Touch wants.
Good to know that! Hard to believe, but NO computer at that location either.

I use a WDTV Live for HD ATSC video recordings to a front projector. The WDTV plays the audio quite decently, but I'd have to turn on the projector to select the music. Not cool. Hence, the Touch...

JohnSwenson
2010-04-23, 20:32
I just looked and the Touch does NOT have the command to spin down a USB drive.

John S.