Disable audio outputs when off?

[AnotherTribe]

OK, where is the setting to disable the digital outputs when the Touch is placed in "Off" mode? The SB3 had a setting (from the web interface) under Player>Audio>Turn Off Audio which enabled me to "Disable outputs when off", no such option for the Touch under this menu. This enabled my auto-sensing DAC to automatically select the active input.

Please, please don't tell me this option has been removed! I am getting a horrible Déjà Vu feeling as I remember going through this with the SB3 during earlier firmware builds.

[JJZolx]

More likely never implemented. I can't even find a bug requesting this ability for the Touch. You should file one. This is similar to the one requesting fixed volume level on the digital outs. I can only imagine that the new architecture presents special problems for the developers when it comes to controlling the digital vs. the analog sides of things.

Although the Touch is billed as an SB3 replacement, it was essentially built from scratch, so some SB3 functionality can almost be expected to be missing. Hopefully it can be implemented eventually.

[ajayrav]

This has never worked for me. I have Duets that I use with a Musical Fidelity X-DACv3 and the automatic input sensing has never worked. This bug was on Bugzilla for a while and kept getting postponed to the next build, till it was finally earmarked for some undetermined time in the future. Yes, it SUCKS!

[AnotherTribe]

Bug #16069 submitted. Hopefully a quick resolution is reached.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16069

[sckramer]

Oh no! I use that also on the sb3

[peterw]

Although the Touch is billed as an SB3 replacement, it was essentially built from scratch, so some SB3 functionality can almost be expected to be missing..

Yeah, I cringed a bit when I read the language in the announcement that "The Squeezebox Touch has the same capabilities of a Squeezebox Classic" -- it certainly doesn't have all the capabilities, even though Touch does add several cool new features and improvements. For 80-90% of users, it offers everything that they've come to expect, and some new features that folks have wanted for years -- for instance, it's great that you can now have a local server+player that uses less power than a dumb old SB Classic.

But there are a few things like this digital output setting, IR blasting, support for JVC DVD remote codes, and wireless bridging that aren't part of Touch either because Logitech hasn't gotten around to implementing it yet, or because the new hardware lacks some of the capabilities of the old gear (e.g. the IR microcontroller and WiFi adapter apparently just aren't as flexible as what Sean & Slim Devices spec'ed for SB2/SB3/Classic).

If you're looking to replace an SB2/SB3/Classic with a Touch, you need to read Mickey's entire sentence -- "The Squeezebox Touch has the same capabilities of a Squeezebox Classic – a Wi-Fi music player capable of playing music from your iTunes or MP3 collection, Internet radio from services such as Pandora, Deezer, Rhapsody, Last.fm, or tuning into local AM/FM radio stations from around the world – but updated with a 4.3 inch (11 cm) color touch screen interface and the simple-to-use menus also used on the Squeezebox Radio." -- and if anything you care about isn't listed there, ask, as it might not be something Touch can do now, or ever. Oh, and when Mickey writes "tuning into local AM/FM radio stations from around the world", of course he means playing Internet streams from stations that also broadcast AM/FM. One could argue there should be asterisk by iTunes (AFAIK, DRM-encumbered tracks still won't play). I imagine Mickey's text was probably twisted a bit by Logitech marketing, so I can't fault *him* for the fact that it glosses over a few finer points, but I think that part of the announcement is, unfortunately, a bit misleading.

[Mnyb]

+1 voted

[AnotherTribe]

Yeah, I cringed a bit when I read the language in the announcement that "The Squeezebox Touch has the same capabilities of a Squeezebox Classic" -- it certainly doesn't have all the capabilities, even though Touch does add several cool new features and improvements.

I thought I had done my due diligence and researched the differences in depth enough. I was aware of the bridging functionality not begin available. I am surprised this issue was not identified (or perhaps it was) during beta testing as it was a bit of a hot topic with the SB3. Anyway, hopefully the bug gets enough votes for Logitech to seriously look at implementing this capability.

[JohnSwenson]

The hardware generation of the digital out on the Touch is completely different than on the SB3, thus any implementation will have to be written from scratch.

Any implementation depends on whether the S/PDIF device driver has been written to support turning the stream on and off. The hardware itself has the capability but I'm not sure if the device driver will do it.

IF the device driver can do it then adding the capability might not be too difficult and could probably be done with an applet or patch, but if the driver does not support that functionality its much more complicated and would have to be in a future firmware release.

John S.

[Mnyb]

The hardware generation of the digital out on the Touch is completely different than on the SB3, thus any implementation will have to be written from scratch.

Any implementation depends on whether the S/PDIF device driver has been written to support turning the stream on and off. The hardware itself has the capability but I'm not sure if the device driver will do it.

IF the device driver can do it then adding the capability might not be too difficult and could probably be done with an applet or patch, but if the driver does not support that functionality its much more complicated and would have to be in a future firmware release.

John S.

If one would want to nice to some folks with flawed dac's is it possible to power it off electrically and or kill the ligth on the coax.
Some dac designers have been lazy and haven't implemented the correct function to detect and actual stream they just detect any light or electricity as signal ? But on the other hand why should the Squeezebox compensate for errors made by others, turning it of electrically may cause pop's and clicks for all other users while cater for the few people with such a dac ? Or make a 3 way setting "off" "electrically off" "on all the time"

[AnotherTribe]

Thanks for the additional information John. Hopefully someone is able to determine the capabilities of the device driver and provide resolution accordingly.

Although this issue is not a complete show stopper it has certainly tarnished my purchase decision and supposed upgrade to the Touch.

[Phil Leigh]

Thanks for the additional information John. Hopefully someone is able to determine the capabilities of the device driver and provide resolution accordingly.

Although this issue is not a complete show stopper it has certainly tarnished my purchase decision and supposed upgrade to the Touch.

That's a shame because the Touch sounds better than the SB3...

[Mnyb]

Actually would solve the problem the other way, I don't like "auto sensing" if you get enough sources at least one or more of them would behave like this anyway, set top dtv boxes games and whatnots.

A dac or a digital preamp that you can choose inputs on.

Some are using really cheap recievers where the coax and toslink really are the same input...

which is problem as you want to use digital with those as they often lack analog bypass

[sckramer]

I just know, when turning off the sb3, my psaudio DL3 dac frees up and waits for a different input (popcornhour, which also turns off the digital out in standby) it just works great-- we'll see what happens tomorrow when i recieve the touch

[AnotherTribe]

I just know, when turning off the sb3, my psaudio DL3 dac frees up and waits for a different input (popcornhour, which also turns off the digital out in standby) it just works great-- we'll see what happens tomorrow when i recieve the touch

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is the same DAC I have and the behavior you mention is exactly how things worked prior to installing the Touch in place of my SB3. Turning "off" the Touch now results in the DL3 remaining on the input and locked.

[Mnyb]

The tread had > 300 views but only 4 vote on the bug ?

If you want it vote and comment in the bug tracker.

[AnotherTribe]

The tread had > 300 views but only 4 vote on the bug ?

If you want it vote and comment in the bug tracker.

Fellow Squeezeboxers I implore you! Now 400+ views and only 6 votes?

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16069

This missing feature is standard on all equipment with S/PDIF outputs that I own or have owned. The Touch should conform to this (non standard?) standard. Besides, I am getting older and have become increasingly adverse to change. So the fact that I now have to manually change my DAC inputs and actually power down my DAC (or remove power from the Touch) in order to avoid having the blazing blue LED's on my DAC glowing all night long is causing me undue distress.

Please help stop the suffering. Vote Now!

(Flame retardant disclaimer: Certain parts of this post were made with tongue firmly in cheek in order to convey the importance of this feature request)

[toby10]

My guess is very few have standalone DAC's so this really wouldn't affect that many, realistically.
I'm one of the majority without such a DAC, but you got my vote anyway. ;)

[pounce]

My guess is very few have standalone DAC's so this really wouldn't affect that many, realistically.
I'm one of the majority without such a DAC, but you got my vote anyway. ;)

If that were truly the case then there would be no reason to include the dual spdif's on the unit. They could have saved themselves a load of money on the components, testing, design etc.

Anyone that is plugging this unit into a receiver with spdif is using an external DAC. I have to believe that group is a lot larger than you think.

[Mnyb]

My guess is very few have standalone DAC's so this really wouldn't affect that many, realistically.
I'm one of the majority without such a DAC, but you got my vote anyway. ;)

You have to include some home theater recievers with digital inputs too.

And HT Processors, it's not only dac's that uses spdif .

In fact nowdays very few ht-recievers have an analog passtru so digital it is.

As I described before some older HT recievers just have one digital input even if there is a toslink and a coax, they go to the same place.

My digital preamp/HT processor don't need this I don't have a problem with it, but it is a part of how any spdif source should work, so I voted.

and also as it is slated as "the SB Classic replacement" it ought to have the functions that SB3 had.

[toby10]

Yes, and that's how I use my SB3, digital outs to an AVR.

But why would I need to turn off it's digital outs to an AVR?
- turn off AVR when done
- switch inputs on AVR for a different source
- auto-switch / auto-sensing inputs on AVR (if I shared inputs)
- manually switch inputs (if I shared inputs)

AVR's have so many different inputs that most go unused and rarely need to be shared.

Or maybe there is an AVR input scenario I'm not thinking of?

Still seems to me the vast majority of people wanting/needing this feature are the very few standalone DAC users.

Views to votes sure seems to side with my analogy of low interest. :)

[AnotherTribe]

The AVR scenario I see this being an issue is if a S/PDIF port expansion device is used as these tend to be auto sensing in nature. But you are right, my request is targeting a small audience. My real beef here is that a feature has been removed from a product that is advertised as a replacement.

Thank you for the vote even though you are not affected.

[AnotherTribe]

Bump

[sckramer]

yep... i miss this

i did vote for the bug

[AnotherTribe]

yep... i miss this

Yeah, not a show stopper but I would like to see the option implemented.

Please vote for the bug.

[johsti]

I too have a PS Audio DL3 and the auto sensing inputs no longer work. Another vote has been cast on bugzilla to add this feature.

[johsti]

Any updates on this feature? I see that it's been assigned on bugzilla, but there hasn't been any updates in some time.

[AnotherTribe]

Yeah, not holding my breath on this. I did enquire a few weeks back as to status but no response to date. In the meantime I have gone back to my SB3, just too much hassle having to manually select inputs on the DAC and having to unplug the Touch just to put the DAC in sleep mode.

[JohnSwenson]

Unfortunately there is no easy way to do this. The standard ALSA functions for turning a device off have nothing in them. The function header is there but no code inside. I ran across a comment in a patch file that says that the only way to turn off the S/PDIF is to change the clock select register to point to a clock input that doesn't exist. I haven't found this implemented yet.

The best way would be to implement this function and export it in the "/sys" area, but this is definitely a change in the firmware that can't be done in the field.

John S.

[AnotherTribe]

Thank you very much for the update John, appreciate it. This is a small issue in the big scheme of things I know. An annoyance rather than a flaw with a very small subset of current and potential users affected. One day hopefully :-)

[sckramer]

Unfortunately there is no easy way to do this. The standard ALSA functions for turning a device off have nothing in them. The function header is there but no code inside. I ran across a comment in a patch file that says that the only way to turn off the S/PDIF is to change the clock select register to point to a clock input that doesn't exist. I haven't found this implemented yet.

The best way would be to implement this function and export it in the "/sys" area, but this is definitely a change in the firmware that can't be done in the field.

John S.

John, did you run accross anything, or new ideas on this during your other work?

Thanks!

[AnotherTribe]

John, did you run accross anything, or new ideas on this during your other work?

Thanks!

I do not think this 'feature' is going to be included anytime soon. As John mentioned in an earlier post the change looks like it needs to me made in the firmware, so it will be up to the developers to implement. There has been no change in the bug ticket status since being assigned to Vahid Fereydouny and with the minimal number of votes (if that even makes a difference these days) I am sure it is of very low priority.

[JohnerH]

I completely forgot about this when I bought my SB... I have 2 distict sources for my DAC. My PC and the SB.

Now everytime I want to switch between them I either have to remove the coaxial from the SB or switch the Toslink off on the PC.

Not cricket! :(

J

[JohnSwenson]

I completely forgot about this when I bought my SB... I have 2 distict sources for my DAC. My PC and the SB.

Now everytime I want to switch between them I either have to remove the coaxial from the SB or switch the Toslink off on the PC.

Not cricket! :(

J

The DAC is just auto-sensing? Most will let you manually switch between inputs.

John S.

[th00ht]

The DAC is just auto-sensing? Most will let you manually switch between inputs.

John S.

Actually, and pardon a silly question why would you want to switch of the digital outputs anyway?. Is this really related to DACs sensing if a signal is there? Otherwise I don't really see a reason.
jk

[erikkramer]

Any news on this? I'm desperately looking for it.

I have 2 devices (TV and Squeezebox) with digital outputs, and one input port on my receiver. Got a nice optical splitter, but now I need to unplug the SB every time I watch tv.

Thanks, Erik

[sbirsen]

bump.

same problem here, anyone has a solution to this ?

i've been looking for optical switchers etc for ages to resolve this problem. my receiver has only 1 optical and 1 coaxial input. sb touch coaxial connector takes over the audio, and unless i unplug it, i can't use another audio source...painful.



Any news on this? I'm desperately looking for it.

I have 2 devices (TV and Squeezebox) with digital outputs, and one input port on my receiver. Got a nice optical splitter, but now I need to unplug the SB every time I watch tv.

Thanks, Erik

[Triode]

The hardware generation of the digital out on the Touch is completely different than on the SB3, thus any implementation will have to be written from scratch.

Any implementation depends on whether the S/PDIF device driver has been written to support turning the stream on and off. The hardware itself has the capability but I'm not sure if the device driver will do it.

IF the device driver can do it then adding the capability might not be too difficult and could probably be done with an applet or patch, but if the driver does not support that functionality its much more complicated and would have to be in a future firmware release.

John S.

SqueezePlay (Touch) doesn't allow this unfortunately... So not trivial to add via a patch.

[Following is only for hackers.....:
If you are interested in hacking then I have added the ability to close the alsa port to squeezelite (see linux forum) when the player is turned on and off. For a very convoluted configuration (hackers only configuration) you could load squeezelite onto Touch and try that out. Would need to change the main squeezeplay code to not use the output port first though...]