last.fm behavior on Boom?

[androidtopp]

I was really happy to see last.fm integration added to the SB lineup, as I used that service in the past, and quite liked it for tracking my listening habits and recommending new music. Being able to have my SB3 report back what I was listening to is great, as 99% of the music I now listen to comes out of the Squeezebox.

However - what will the Boom do as far as last.fm behavior? I've purchased one for use as a bedside alarm/radio. When I'm reading in bed, I want to be able to listen to music, and have that reported back to last.fm. It is, afterall, part of my every day listening, and should go towards recommendations and the like. However, when my alarm goes off, and plays a specific song every morning, will that get reported? I would think that would throw my profile off a bit, and while I can go in and delete "unwanted" or "accidental" listens, if I didn't have to, that'd be nice.

For that matter - it kind of bugs me that internet radio reports back to last.fm. As I have no control over what gets played, I end up going to the last.fm profile page and deleting stuff out that I don't like, so it doesn't show up and influence things in the future. Can scrobbling be disabled for internet radio only?

Thanks,
Andrew

[Paul Webster]

When playing internet radio the scrobbled entries should have a flag set to indicate as such ... and last.fm are supposed to show it as "Now Playing" but not record it to the profile.
I saw a thread about this when the official last.fm integration was released and my recollection was that SD reckoned that they were doing it right and that it must be a problem at the last.fm end.

[ModelCitizen]

I've found BOOM and Last.fm to be a match made in heaven (well nearly).
Since I've had the Boom is had become (by far) my most frequently used player (it's in the bedroom but I use it whenever I'm upstairs... which seems to be a lot... like now for instance!). I have used the Loved Tracks facility very well, which has improved my profile no end and given me a great Loved Tracks playlist... the cream of the cream as it were.

BTW, I'm a subscriber (I'm not too sure of the benefits this gives me but Loved Tracks might be one).

Your concerns aren't concerns. Internet radio does not register with last.fm.

Enjoy.

MC

[androidtopp]

Hmm. I definitely spent a good amount of time nixing internet radio items from my profile after I first set it up and started testing - since I have not used the internet radio feature at all. I know it's a minor thing, in the grand scheme...but I don't want a single person to think I would listen to the Raconteurs on purpose.

Can someone who has a Boom (mine is in the mail...should have paid for faster shipping) confirm the alarm behavior? Do alarm plays get scrobbled?

[ModelCitizen]

Can someone who has a Boom (mine is in the mail...should have paid for faster shipping) confirm the alarm behavior? Do alarm plays get scrobbled?

OK. I was wrong, sorry. I've just used a Shoutcast station as my alram and the tracks have been scrobbled. Normally I use AlienBBC for my alarm and BBC Radio 4 does not seem to get scrobbled at all (it is speech radio though).

You can turn scrobbing off per player, so you could turn it off for the Boom, or even scrobble to a different account than your main one.

MC

[autopilot]

Last.FM is great, but it does scrobble internet radio to your profile and its a major downer for me. IMO, it's as good as broken. Because of this, my last.fm profile is a complete mess and i dont the the time to prune it. I only really use the similar artist function now. Shame really.

[Siduhe]

For that matter - it kind of bugs me that internet radio reports back to last.fm. As I have no control over what gets played, I end up going to the last.fm profile page and deleting stuff out that I don't like, so it doesn't show up and influence things in the future. Can scrobbling be disabled for internet radio only?


Short answer is no, as others have said. However, we have a similar kind of issue as a multi-account household and the workaround we use is as follows:

Promote the Last.fm Audioscrobbler menu item to the top of the home menu;
Set Do No Scrobble as the default for each player in the Player Settings;
When one of us plays something and the Now Playing Screensaver kicks in you can just click back left and because the Last.fm Audioscrobbler option is at the top of the list you go into that, then select the scrobbling account you want.
We do a clear and rescan every night, and that seems to set each player back to Do Not Scobble.

Is a bit of a faff, but it keeps our accounts separate and means we don't end up scrobbling internet radio because no-one has switched scrobbling on in the mornings. You also get used to checking which account is enabled quite quickly...

[jo-wie]

See

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44082&page=3

I would like to point at the answers from Andy.

jo-wie

[autopilot]

See

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=44082&page=3

I would like to point at the answers from Andy.

jo-wie

I know, and Andy said "Radio metadata is scrobbled but it's scrobbled using a different flag so Last.fm doesn't treat the data the same as tracks you chose yourself. This is really a question for Last.fm.".

But unfortunately this is not the case, it IS being included in the same way as my own tracks. I dont know who is ultimately responsible, is it last.fm who need to improve their API's - or Slim Devices that need to use them better, or both, i dont know. What i do know is that it's effectively borked.

Why Scrobble internet radio anyway, even if its not added to your library? And if it is being handled differently, with different flags, could the option not be added to not scrobble data with those flags? Whats adding the flags, Squeezecenter?

[Paul Webster]

But unfortunately this is not the case, it IS being included in the same way as my own tracks. I dont know who is ultimately responsible, is it last.fm who need to improve their API's - or Slim Devices that need to use they better, or both, i dont know. What i do know is that it's effectively borked.
I think it is last.fm who is at fault and have posted a diagnosis in their forum
http://www.last.fm/group/Last.fm+Web+Services/forum/21604/_/454500

Why Scrobble internet radio anyway? And if it is being handled differently, with different flags, could the option not be added to not scrobble data with those flags? Whats adding the flags, Squeezecenter?
Having looked at the code ... it would be easy enough to stop it sending them but I think it would be good to get an official response from last.fm

[jo-wie]

To support the flags given by Last.fm is is a good design - imho.

I'm not THE last.fm user and have not yet done much. I've not a real feeling for the recommendations I got, if they do have a big influence of music which was played on Internet radio station. I hear stations playing my style of music. How are the flags handled by last.fm? Weighting in some way - let's say: 80:20? I do not know. Music was played (it your decision to tune in) and maybe or not heard by you - so scrobbling of Internet radio stations is correct.

Okay, enabling a Internet radio scrobbling yes/no would give us more control and would be more ... human to understand - but the current design is correct.

My 2 cent.

[autopilot]

but the current design is correct.

It's so not mate, sorry. You are saying that every time you listen to a new internet radio station that _every_ track they play you will really really like? I dont believe it, sorry, and as you say, you have not even tried it properly yet. Even if its a station of a genre you like, you will find some you dont - and it can have a big effect on your last.fm profile. Having a last.fm 'history' which includes you internet radio is one thing and could be quite handy, but the way it works now is totally _not_ how it should work. One of the great things about internet radio is experimenting with new music tastes. It's great to be able to press 'i love it' from time to time, but you dont last.fm to think you liked it all - that goes completely against the ethos and whole point of last.fm

[andyg]

On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:41 AM, autopilot wrote:

>
> jo-wie;335650 Wrote:
>> but the current design is correct.
>
> It's so not mate, sorry. You are saying that every time you listen
> to a
> new internet radio station that _every_ track they play you will
> really
> -really- like? I dont believe it, sorry, and as you say, you have not
> even tried it properly yet. Even if its a station of a genre you like,
> you will find some you dont - and it can have a big effect on your
> last.fm profile. Having a last.fm 'history' which includes you
> internet
> radio is one thing and could be quite handy, but the way it works
> now is
> totally _not_ how it should work. One of the great things about
> internet
> radio is experimenting with new music tastes. It's great to be able to
> press 'i love it' from time to time, but you dont last.fm to think you
> liked it all - that goes completely against the ethos and whole point
> of last.fm

Please read the Last.fm Scrobbler API documentation. How many times
do I have to say it, radio tracks are NOT scrobbled the same as normal
tracks.

[autopilot]

On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:41 AM, autopilot wrote:

>
> jo-wie;335650 Wrote:
>> but the current design is correct.
>
> It's so not mate, sorry. You are saying that every time you listen
> to a
> new internet radio station that _every_ track they play you will
> really
> -really- like? I dont believe it, sorry, and as you say, you have not
> even tried it properly yet. Even if its a station of a genre you like,
> you will find some you dont - and it can have a big effect on your
> last.fm profile. Having a last.fm 'history' which includes you
> internet
> radio is one thing and could be quite handy, but the way it works
> now is
> totally _not_ how it should work. One of the great things about
> internet
> radio is experimenting with new music tastes. It's great to be able to
> press 'i love it' from time to time, but you dont last.fm to think you
> liked it all - that goes completely against the ethos and whole point
> of last.fm

Please read the Last.fm Scrobbler API documentation. How many times
do I have to say it, radio tracks are NOT scrobbled the same as normal
tracks.

Andy, i know what you are saying- im sure the API documentation does indeed say that and i am equally sure you are using it correctly. But please trust me when i say that many tracks i am listening to on internet radio ARE being scrobbled in the same way. My 'library' is littered with them and last.fm makes no distinctions. Everytime i listen to, say, somaFM i log onto last.fm to find "new tracks have been added to your library" and there they are with all my regular listened tracks. And my recommended station is often based on those tracks. Like i had no metal at all in my last.fm libray, then i listened to a metal station for a while (to keep a metal head friend happy). After that i got loads of metal recommendations.

I'm not going mad Andy, and i understand what you are saying. Maybe it's last.fm thats at fault, but thats what IS happening mate :)

[androidtopp]

I must agree with autopilot - As much as things are designed to keep internet radio listens from being scrobbled with manual plays from a squeezebox or from iTunes, they show up in my profile all the same.

It sounds, as an answer to my question, that I will need to not scrobble from my Boom, as it will scrobble alarm plays (be they tracks I own or internet radio plays). If I wake up to the same track 250+ days a year, no matter how much I love it...that'll probably mess up my recommendations a bit.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Paul Webster]

I've had a couple of responses from last.fm staff over on their forum.
Looks like they are willing to discuss this topic.
Their position right now is that it is working as designed - and they do expect that internet radio tracks that are scrobbled should get into the profile.
They handle it differently afterwards when working out recommendations.

Note - this is not Boom specific - so probably should move/merge this thread