File break editing, standards for lead-in/lead-out?

[Mark Lanctot]

Since we have a few mastering engineers around here, I'm wondering if I can get some advice.

I'm editing a very long WAV file taken off a DVD (DualDisc actually). It's a 24/48 PCM version of the CD side but it isn't broken up into individual tracks, it's one long track. I'm breaking it up with Audacity.

The track breaks are obvious to spot on the waveform but is there a standard for lead-in and lead-out silence for a typical CD track? I've settled on 0.5 seconds lead-in and 2 seconds lead-out, I can't stand overly-long periods of silence here but I don't want things to be too abrupt.

Thanks.

[Craig]

I'd say that there isn't a standard, it's whatever feels right for the music but in your case aren't the gaps already there as intended? it's more a case of where you make the cut and I would do it pretty close to the start of the music.
You also need to make the cuts on frame boundarys to prevent padding if you want make a cd when you've finished. I'm not familiar with Audacity but I would expect it to quantise your cuts to the correct place.

Craig
(guilty of one mastering job that I'm not proud of)

[Mark Lanctot]

The gaps are there of course, but they are inconsistent and sometimes way too long (5 seconds+). Also it's impossible to tell what the lead-out is on one song and the lead-in on the next.

[Craig]

I'd still say that they're not inconsistances, they are what the mastering engineer intended but looking at a few random tracks I'd say an average lead in is about 250 mS making the rest of the gap the lead out and you can soon shorten that if you think it's too long.

In the olden days there would be a defined pause between tracks, seen as a countdown on a cd player but nowadays the pause is generally built into the lead out. Some early CD players had relays that muted the outputs during the pauses and too short a lead in could lead to the intro being clipped because of the time taken to unmute.

I'd settle on 250mS lead in and see what feels right for the lead out.

Craig

[bigfool1956]

How did you extract the data from the disc?

I ask because it is very unusual to have no track breaks, but on a DVD these are marked into the .IFO files.

Try downloading the trial version of DVD-AUDIO extractor, and it should give you the tracks separated out.

[Mark Lanctot]

How did you extract the data from the disc?

DVD Decrypter. I did try a very old program called SmartRipper which worked for me in the past, but it produced an LPCM WAV file that was all static and a 0-byte AC3 file. DVD Decrypter produced an LPCM WAV file that was proper though, plus the same 0-byte AC3 file.


I ask because it is very unusual to have no track breaks, but on a DVD these are marked into the .IFO files.

This was an album in 24/48 LPCM. I've deleted the .IFO file, from what I recall it was no use. In the past the .IFO files, even when they did contain chapter boundary marks, were useless, the markers were off by 5 - 30 seconds.

[bigfool1956]

Hi Mark,

If you still have the disc, why don't you give DVD-Audio Extractor a go, it's free for 30 days. I have been pretty happy with it, including the timing of the track breaks - so much so that I coughed up for a registered copy.

I have noticed that DVD-V rips usually have excessive gaps between tracks. I found this with both Björk's Volumen, and Bowie's Greatest Hits. I guess it relates to the viewing experience, which is of course how the discs are meant to be enjoyed.

In fact, I was considering using Audacity to trim some silence off the ripped tracks for similar reasons to you.