Warm in Power Save mode.

[joe90]

I've noticed that my Squeezebox feels warm in power save mode (blank display & slim server off) is this normal?

[Ross L]

It should be the same temperature always, how hot is it?

[joe90]

Thanks for reply - It's not hot, just warm (the same temperature as when it is running). It's just that I didn't expect to feel any warmth from the unit during power save (my TV for example is not warm during power save) why is any noticeable temperature generated during power save ??

[dcote]

that effect is perfectly normal.

try this: darken the room completely and look closely at the SB. you will still be able to see the heating filaments of the vacuum fluorescent display glowing dull orange. because they are always on, the SB is always slightly warm.

i know this seems strange, but it is a "case of the way it is".

i dont like it either, i think it is a waste of energy.

in some other thread in this forum (i forget which one) someone actually measured how much power the SB draws while operating and while in standby. the results were something like 6W operating and 4W standby. while 4W may not seem much, compared to a modern TV (mine draws 1,2W in standby) it is still significant.

with the world going the way it is, maybe slimdevices could find a way to turn the vfd fully off in standby? and help save the planet? ;-)

regards,
dom

[joe90]

Thanks for the reply dom - Well on the one hand I'm happy that it is normal, but on the other .. well I guess I will unplug the dc plug when not in use. 4W does seem a lot doesn't it??

[SuperQ]

Thanks for the reply dom - Well on the one hand I'm happy that it is normal, but on the other .. well I guess I will unplug the dc plug when not in use. 4W does seem a lot doesn't it??

It's not a lot of power, many other devices draw much more in standby than a sqeezebox.

4W turns out to be about 35kWh/year. This is about $4 in electricity.

In comparison, changing out a single 100W lightbulb for a 25W CFL will save about 110kWh if you use it 4 hours a day.

[Mark Lanctot]

try this: darken the room completely and look closely at the SB. you will still be able to see the heating filaments of the vacuum fluorescent display glowing dull orange. because they are always on, the SB is always slightly warm.

BTW this isn't unique to the SB, it's the nature of vacuum flourescent display technology. The SB just uses a bigger VFD than your microwave oven.

And I'm with SuperQ - there are easy ways to save far more energy: switch to compact flourescent bulbs. Adjust the temperature 1 degree cooler if heating or 1 degree warmer if cooling. Install foam gaskets in your electrical outlets. Recaulk and weatherstrip windows.

I'm all for saving energy but focus in the 200 kWh users, not the 3 kWh users...

[Ross L]

Also consider getting tools like the Kilo-Watt and auditing appliances in your house. I found the inefficiency of some appliances shocking.

[dcote]

while i do agree with everyone, it should be a small matter add a component in the next version (SB4? transporter 2?) that allows the heating filaments to be switched off.

i assume the transporter has the same effect, which would double its standby power to ~8W, because it has tow of those display, right? and that is more than enough to run a CFL on! :-p

and again: in this day and age, every watt less counts! especially watts that are used to heat the display in a system that is OFF...

dom

[Mark Lanctot]

and again: in this day and age, every watt less counts! especially watts that are used to heat the display in a system that is OFF...

Note this isn't for heating, it's the nature of the technology. The filaments need to be hot to allow electrons to stream from them.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_fluorescent_display:


The device consists of a hot cathode (filaments), anodes (phosphor) and grids encased in a glass envelope under a high vacuum condition. The cathode is made up of fine tungsten wires, coated by alkaline earth metal oxides, which emit electrons when heated by an electric current. These electrons are controlled and diffused by the grids, which are made up of thin metal. If electrons impinge on the phosphor-coated plates, they fluoresce, emitting light.

These filaments need to be on if the device is to show the idle screensaver. The Squeezebox is never truly off, it's merely idle.

This is exactly the same in the VFDs in your VCR and microwave oven. It's just that the Squeezebox VFD is bigger.

[dcote]

hi mark!

yeah, the vfd is essentially just a miniature television screen in reverse.

i leave the display OFF (as in: no screensaver) when my SB3 is "OFF" (as in: "standby").

i have three reasons for that:

1. VFDs -like all vacuum tubes or plasma screens- age over time. the displays loose brightness and contrast. sometimes become blotchy. this effect can be minimized by reducing the number of operational hours and/or the amount of electrons flowing through it.

2. you may laugh, but i am concerned about the environment. while it may be "just" 4W, that is 4W for a device that is supposed to be OFF. i dont use my SB3 as a clock or a fancy graphical gadget, i use mine as an excellent source of quality music.

3. my SB3 is in our bedroom and my better half doesnt like the light at night! :-)

how many SBs are out there? and how many transporters? that must amount to quite a few kW, for decvices that are not in use?!

btw.: i work for a large international computer manufacturer and they make a BIG deal out of PCs that use only 1,5W of standby power rather than 4W or 6W. they exploit that for marketing like you wouldnt believe! why not slimdevices? putting an "environmental angle" on a product has never hurt anyone yet. ;-)

i guess i am just asking for slimdevices to add a simple transistor or something which will switch the filament OFF, when the SB is in standby AND no screensaver is running. call it "powersave" mode maybe?

then again, i dont know how much of the 4W are actually caused by the filament, and how much is caused by the WiFi connection or how much is lost in the power supply itself...

dom

[Mark Lanctot]

1. VFDs -like all vacuum tubes or plasma screens- age over time. the displays loose brightness and contrast. sometimes become blotchy. this effect can be minimized by reducing the number of operational hours and/or the amount of electrons flowing through it.

Very true. I turn down the brightness in idle mode to minimize this, but you're correct in stating that the "wear" is not zero.


2. you may laugh, but i am concerned about the environment. while it may be "just" 4W, that is 4W for a device that is supposed to be OFF. i dont use my SB3 as a clock or a fancy graphical gadget, i use mine as an excellent source of quality music.

Well given that you're not using a screensaver when in idle mode, this is perfectly reasonable.


3. my SB3 is in our bedroom and my better half doesnt like the light at night! :-)

I can sympathize. The SB is very bright in a darkened room even at its lowest brightness setting. I've minimized the amount of pixels that are on by setting the standby font to "High". This leaves a single-line clock display in 1-pixel-wide characters, essentially, the minimum amount of active pixels possible.


btw.: i work for a large international computer manufacturer and they make a BIG deal out of PCs that use only 1,5W of standby power rather than 4W or 6W. they exploit that for marketing like you wouldnt believe! why not slimdevices? putting an "environmental angle" on a product has never hurt anyone yet. ;-)

Environmental marketing seems to be really taking off right now, yes.


then again, i dont know how much of the 4W are actually caused by the filament, and how much is caused by the WiFi connection or how much is lost in the power supply itself...

Very good points. Wi-Fi cards are not very power efficient, just see how long yout laptop battery lasts with Wi-Fi on versus off. Unfortunately Logitech can't do very much about that.

The power supply is a switching power supply - the most energy-efficient type currently produced. This is why it can be so small yet not overheat.