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mswlogo
2007-03-05, 08:03
I'm ready to throw in the towel and just leave my Server running full time, waste electricity and shorten life time of my server.

If I Pause or Stop for a couple minutes the SlimServer shuts down (even though it may have just powered it up). Server normally would sleep after 1 hr.

If I power up SqueezeBox it does not wait long enough for Server to come up. So I have to power up twice and stand there waiting for Server to come up.

SqueezeBox itself ignores PowerOn IR code (only Toggle Power). So My Remote can't use Discrete Power IR codes if I want the Server to Sleep.

Also if Server Boots from cold rather than Sleep. MySql shuts down half the time. So Another reason to never shutdown.

Basically it's wicked annoying trying to have my Server sleep because of simple bugs that could be fixed. So SlimDevices is encouraging me to go non Green.

It is completely stable if I never shut off server. And I think if Pull the Plugin handling Keep Awake and set server to not shutdown. I assume Pause and Stop will not cause server to shutdown.

ThinkPad T40p running XP for server.
SqueezeBox
6.5.1 SlimServer
Have had SqueezeBox wired and wireless.

Ron Olsen
2007-03-05, 09:16
I'm ready to throw in the towel and just leave my Server running full time, waste electricity and shorten life time of my server.

Use more electricity: yes; shorten the lifetime of your server: no. Computers work best when they are always on. Most commercial server machines run 24x7. I've had my computer running 24x7 for four years since I built it, and I've had no hardware problems.

Many Linux systems run maintenance programs every 24 hours. On my machine, these run between 3am and 4am.

If you have a CRT monitor, it's a good idea to set it up to go into standby mode if it's not used for a while.

If you leave your computer on 24x7, make sure you have a good firewall program and use a surge protector.

See http://kb.iu.edu/data/adls.html for details.

pfarrell
2007-03-05, 09:26
mswlogo wrote:
> I'm ready to throw in the towel and just leave my Server running full
> time, waste electricity and shorten life time of my server.
>
> Basically it's wicked annoying trying to have my Server sleep because
> of simple bugs that could be fixed. So SlimDevices is encouraging me to
> go non Green.

As others have said, turning off a computer most likely shortens its life.

A better solution to staying Green is to not use a surplus computer
but to build/buy a low power server specific for SlimServer
and other file sharing tasks. Something with a Via 1GHZ processor takes
very little power and is an acceptable SlimServer.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

jeffmeh
2007-03-05, 09:49
I'm telling Al Gore. :-P

haunyack
2007-03-05, 09:57
I'm telling Al Gore. :-P

Oh...the guy who was billed for 221,000 kilowatt-hours usage in 2006 ?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659

Ron Olsen
2007-03-05, 10:14
Oh...the guy who was billed for 221,000 kilowatt-hours usage in 2006 ?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659

That's an exaggeration! An urban legend spewed forth by a conservative think tank! He really only used 191,000 kilowatt-hours ($1,200 monthly electric bill). A former vice president deserves to live in a 10,000 square foot mansion with a guest house and a heated swimming pool!

See http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/al_gore_energy.htm

Please get your facts straight before you besmirch the reputation of our beloved ecological leader! :-) :-) :-)

haunyack
2007-03-05, 10:20
Not my leader - ecologically or otherwise.

Time for me to throw a log on the fire.

.

seanadams
2007-03-05, 10:31
If you use Squeezenetwork instead, you would be saving both electricity and PC hardware... and not just on your end - the server systems hosted by us are vastly more efficient. You may find that with Rhapsody, you just don't need to have your own music collection online all the time. Just an idea.

Rick B.
2007-03-05, 10:50
If you leave your computer on 24x7, make sure you have a good firewall program and use a surge protector.

See http://kb.iu.edu/data/adls.html for details.

I'd say to also use a USP - they can be had for well under $100 and prevent inelegant power-down's.

mattybain
2007-03-05, 10:52
Great but what about us outside the US?

What about LastFM and MP3Tunes?

Get these working and yes I will probably switch of my server and save a whole heap of electricity.

Pale Blue Ego
2007-03-05, 11:41
If you use Squeezenetwork instead, you would be saving both electricity and PC hardware... and not just on your end - the server systems hosted by us are vastly more efficient. You may find that with Rhapsody, you just don't need to have your own music collection online all the time. Just an idea.

Upsides - vast music catalog, more planet-friendly.

Downsides - low bitrate music and a subscription fee. Might be cheaper (if not greener) for him to run his own server 24-7.

Side note on global warming:

The sun is getting hotter (hopefully it won't go nova before my Magnum Opus is finished), and this may account for 90% or more of any warming trend. Ice on Mars is melting, Titan and Pluto are measurably warmer, and the coming decade should see even greater solar flareups. We could see a land rush to Canada. As for me, I'll stay in Florida and wait for my current property, (12 miles inland) to become oceanfront.

mswlogo
2007-03-05, 13:00
Upsides - vast music catalog, more planet-friendly.

Downsides - low bitrate music and a subscription fee. Might be cheaper (if not greener) for him to run his own server 24-7.

Side note on global warming:

The sun is getting hotter (hopefully it won't go nova before my Magnum Opus is finished), and this may account for 90% or more of any warming trend. Ice on Mars is melting, Titan and Pluto are measurably warmer, and the coming decade should see even greater solar flareups. We could see a land rush to Canada. As for me, I'll stay in Florida and wait for my current property, (12 miles inland) to become oceanfront.

I'll trust the majority of the scientists that spend a lifetime on the subject that say it's humans that have caused it. It's a pretty well accepted fact these days. Except for a few hold outs.

It's a good suggestion on squeezenetwork. If it had full bitrate I'd seriously consider it and the fee would not be an issue.

I've done a lot on making it low power. UPS full time also burns electricity.

konut
2007-03-05, 14:28
"It's not easy being green." - Kermit the Frog

pfarrell
2007-03-05, 15:53
funkstar wrote:
> Not really. If you already have the hardware then you aren't going to
> spend, say, 300 on parts. The difference in electricity usage isn't
> going to be vast, especially if you are using modest salvaged hardware.
> It will take you years to save the 300 you spent.
>
> Also, what about factoring in the energy used in manufacturing that new
> hardware you bought that wasn't strictly necessary. Then there is the
> waste produced by throwing out the old, not unneeded hardware :)

Yeah, but.
Being Green is not about being cost effective.

The most cost effective way to generate power is to use coal, but you
can't even say that anymore. ;-)

And the actual most greenhouse friendly way to generate power is nuke,
but very few greens will admit to that either.

I don't see the issue in the first place. No one would use a kilowatt
powered gaming rig for a SlimServer, the old mellow things work fine.
Just leave it on in your basement.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

funkstar
2007-03-05, 15:54
A better solution to staying Green is to not use a surplus computer
but to build/buy a low power server specific for SlimServer
and other file sharing tasks. Something with a Via 1GHZ processor takes
very little power and is an acceptable SlimServer.
Not really. If you already have the hardware then you aren't going to spend, say, 300 on parts. The difference in electricity usage isn't going to be vast, especially if you are using modest salvaged hardware. It will take you years to save the 300 you spent.

Also, what about factoring in the energy used in manufacturing that new hardware you bought that wasn't strictly necessary. Then there is the waste produced by throwing out the old, not unneeded hardware :)

Pale Blue Ego
2007-03-05, 21:36
I'll trust the majority of the scientists that spend a lifetime on the subject that say it's humans that have caused it. It's a pretty well accepted fact these days. Except for a few hold outs.

I'm guessing the majority of those scientists have spent a lifetime studying this planet only. And, if there WERE any generalists among all those specialists, they could not have spent much time studying the solar data, as it was just recently released. I certainly don't dispute the warming trend, nor do I deny that human activity has an effect. I do know that fluctuations large and small have been happening since long before the industrial age, and the recent data indicates the entire solar system is getting warmer, and will get warmer still in the coming decades no matter what efforts are made here on Earth.

At any rate, I try to do my part; in the past 3 years I've put only 2200 miles on my (very tiny) automobile, and more than 3600 miles on my electric scooter (www.egovehicles.com). The Ego2 is almost as cool as the Squeezebox as far as nifty, forward-thinking, life-altering technology.

Anyway....it's a discussion that, while vastly interesting, is better suited for another forum. Peace.

mswlogo
2007-03-05, 22:44
I'd just like to have it work as designed and it doesn't. I'd like it to work on the hardware I already have. I like to see it work on other peoples hardware too. I've seen bits and pieces of the same complaints posted. And I'd like it to work on hardware I plan for the future. I already bought the hardware and like others said replacing it serves nothing green.

The fixes I'm asking for are fairly trivial.

haunyack
2007-03-05, 22:57
I'd just like to have it work as designed and it doesn't. I'd like it to work on the hardware I already have. I like to see it work on other peoples hardware too. I've seen bits and pieces of the same complaints posted. And I'd like it to work on hardware I plan for the future. I already bought the hardware and like others said replacing it serves nothing green.

The fixes I'm asking for are fairly trivial.

Can I get a witness?

Ron Olsen
2007-03-05, 23:40
I'd just like to have it work as designed and it doesn't. I'd like it to work on the hardware I already have. I like to see it work on other peoples hardware too. I've seen bits and pieces of the same complaints posted. And I'd like it to work on hardware I plan for the future. I already bought the hardware and like others said replacing it serves nothing green.

The fixes I'm asking for are fairly trivial.
How do you know that the fixes are trivial?

If you want help to solve your problems, and not just rant about them, turn on the appropriate SlimServer debug flags (d_control, and perhaps others) via Server Settings->Debugging, and post the output when your problems occur.

For a definition of what the debug flags mean, go to your SlimServer installation directory and run "slimserver.pl --help".

haunyack
2007-03-05, 23:51
How do you know that the fixes are trivial?

If you want help to solve your problems, and not just rant about them, turn on the appropriate SlimServer debug flags (d_control, and perhaps others) via Server Settings->Debugging, and post the output when your problems occur.

Now it's your rant.

Not his problem - Slimdevices lack of problem resolution.
Or should I say - his problem inherited?
Why should he have to jump through these hoops to troubleshoot a problem in published software?

Slimdevices "open-source" - bah!

Now it's my rant.

kdf
2007-03-05, 23:56
On 5-Mar-07, at 10:51 PM, haunyack wrote:

>
> Ron Olsen;185889 Wrote:
>> How do you know that the fixes are trivial?
>>
>> If you want help to solve your problems, and not just rant about them,
>> turn on the appropriate SlimServer debug flags (d_control, and perhaps
>> others) via Server Settings->Debugging, and post the output when your
>> problems occur.
>
> Not his problem - Slimdevices lack of problem resolution.
> Or should I say - his problem inherited?
> Why should he have to jump through these hoops to troubleshoot a
> problem in published software?
>
> Slimdevices "open-source" - bah!
>
ok....lets tackle this...

do you walk to work?
what car do you drive?
how many lightbulbs do you have in your house, cf?
what is the source of your power? coal? nuclear? hydro?

-kdf

Ron Olsen
2007-03-06, 00:01
Not his problem - Slimdevices lack of problem resolution.
Or should I say - his problem inherited?
Why should he have to jump through these hoops to troubleshoot a problem in published software?

Slimdevices "open-source" - bah!
Feel better after this rant? How do you expect SlimDevices to solve problems without specific details about what's going wrong? To get a bug fixed, the problem has to be reproducible by the developer fixing the bug. This isn't going to happen without additional input from the person experiencing the problem. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but that's how it works.

kdf
2007-03-06, 00:03
On 5-Mar-07, at 11:01 PM, Ron Olsen wrote:

>
> haunyack;185891 Wrote:
>> Not his problem - Slimdevices lack of problem resolution.
>> Or should I say - his problem inherited?
>> Why should he have to jump through these hoops to troubleshoot a
>> problem in published software?
>>
>> Slimdevices "open-source" - bah!
> Feel better after this rant? How do you expect SlimDevices to solve
> problems without specific details about what's going wrong?
s/he doesn't. it's obvious how to get in touch with SD properly, so
this kind of thing is always a clear motive.

-kdf

haunyack
2007-03-06, 00:08
Feel better after this rant? How do you expect SlimDevices to solve problems without specific details about what's going wrong? To get a bug fixed, the problem has to be reproducible by the developer fixing the bug. This isn't going to happen without additional input from the person experiencing the problem. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but that's how it works.

Yea, I feel much "better".

Thanks for setting me straight.
Where would I be without your wisdom?

haunyack
2007-03-06, 00:44
On 5-Mar-07, at 11:01 PM, Ron Olsen wrote:

>
> haunyack;185891 Wrote:
>> Not his problem - Slimdevices lack of problem resolution.
>> Or should I say - his problem inherited?
>> Why should he have to jump through these hoops to troubleshoot a
>> problem in published software?
>>
>> Slimdevices "open-source" - bah!
> Feel better after this rant? How do you expect SlimDevices to solve
> problems without specific details about what's going wrong?
s/he doesn't. it's obvious how to get in touch with SD properly, so
this kind of thing is always a clear motive.

-kdf

I understand your point.
My point, simply - (as others have stated more eloquently than I)
I have putchased this piece of hardware on good faith.
Why doesn't it perform as stated?
When did I agree to be involved in the evolution of the supporting (albeit primitive) software?
Is my usage of this wonderful hardware dependent on my contribution to this obviously faulty,buggy software?
Or maybe I should include a usage clause with every bug report I submit?

This thread has digressed and I am partially responsible.
My apologies.

Ron Olsen
2007-03-06, 01:16
I understand your point.
My point, simply - (as others have stated more eloquently than I)
I have putchased this piece of hardware on good faith.
Why doesn't it perform as stated?
When did I agree to be involved in the evolution of the supporting (albeit primitive) software?
Is my usage of this wonderful hardware dependent on my contribution to this obviously faulty,buggy software?
Or maybe I should include a usage clause with every bug report I submit?


On Feb 25th, you posted the following to the "Everything is running fine!!" thread:


SlimServer Version: 6.3.1 - 8468 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252
Player Firmware Version: 28
Your music library contains 1881 albums with 23835 songs by 1474 artists.

I (mostly) love it!

(See http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=183611#post183611)

Are you experiencing problems now or are you just being a Troll?

haunyack
2007-03-06, 01:22
On Feb 25th, you posted the following to the "Everything is running fine!!" thread:

(See http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=183611#post183611)

Are you experiencing problems now or are you just being a Troll?
Why the partial quote?


"This thread has digressed and I am partially responsible.
My apologies."

Yea ... label me a troll.

The twists and turns one must go through to make this SB work.
Express your frustration on this forum and get flamed by a fan-boy.
Yes...I'm a (paid admission) troll.

Nice work Mr. Mason.

Is it time to return this thread to the subject at hand?
Or would you rather beat the dead pony?
Either way, I'm up to it.

peter
2007-03-06, 01:43
haunyack wrote:
> kdf;185896 Wrote:
>
>> On 5-Mar-07, at 11:01 PM, Ron Olsen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> haunyack;185891 Wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not his problem - Slimdevices lack of problem resolution.
>>>> Or should I say - his problem inherited?
>>>> Why should he have to jump through these hoops to troubleshoot a
>>>> problem in published software?
>>>>
>>>> Slimdevices "open-source" - bah!
>>>>
>>> Feel better after this rant? How do you expect SlimDevices to solve
>>> problems without specific details about what's going wrong?
>>>
>> s/he doesn't. it's obvious how to get in touch with SD properly, so
>> this kind of thing is always a clear motive.
>>
>> -kdf
>>
>
> I understand your point.
> My point, simply - (as other have stated more eloquently than I)
> I have putchased this piece of hardware on good faith.
> Why doesn't it perform as stated?
> When did I agree to be involved in the evolution of the supporting
> (albeit primitive) software?
> Is my usage of this wonderfull hardware dependent on my contribution to
> this obviously faulty software?
>

So sue them and stop whining or sell your faulty device on e-bay for
nearly the full price.
I buy lots of things that don't really perform to my expectations.

Regards,
Peter

Mark Lanctot
2007-03-06, 07:33
We could see a land rush to Canada.

Temperature this morning: -22 C. And I'm in the southernmost part of the country (latitude 43 N).

C'mon over, Floridians. ;-) Lotsa land available in Nunavut (http://www.gov.nu.ca/Nunavut/), land area 2 million square kilometres, population 29 500.

haunyack
2007-03-06, 09:23
"So sue them and stop whining or sell your faulty device on e-bay for nearly the full price."
Regards,
Peter

That's it, I'll take all the bloody folks them to court...yea.
Let's see what a waste of resources that could be.
And while I'm there I'll complain that I am not allowed to "whine" on SD community forum after having one too many pints.

I'd rather keep the hardware and sell the "faulty" software.

.

peter
2007-03-06, 09:26
haunyack wrote:
> "So sue them and stop whining or sell your faulty device on e-bay for
> nearly the full price."
> Regards,
> Peter
>
> That's it, I'll take all the bloody folks them to court...yea.
> Let's see what a waste of resources that could be.
>

You gather it's bad for the environment too?

> And while I'm there I'll complain that I am not allowed to "whine" on
> SD community forum.
>
> I'd rather keep the hardware and sell the "faulty" software.
>

Point is that very very few companies have forums that are as helpful as
SD's. You might show your appreciation by showing some realism. Not
every one's favorite bug can be squashed immediately. Tens of thousands
of SD users are very happy with the devices. If you're not, sell the
damn thing. Don't sour up this forum by whining like a spoiled brat.
You're boring us. You have a 30 return warranty, use it.

Regards,
Peter

kdf
2007-03-06, 09:35
On 5-Mar-07, at 11:44 PM, haunyack wrote:
>
> I understand your point.
> My point, simply - (as other have stated more eloquently than I)
> I have putchased this piece of hardware on good faith.
> Why doesn't it perform as stated?

I'm sure you are aware that not everything works 100%, 100% of the
time. Given a sample set of a thousand units, there are bound to be
some issues. Getting that one bad one sucks, but it doesn't mean
everything is bad.

> When did I agree to be involved in the evolution of the supporting
> (albeit primitive) software?

when you downloaded it and started using it? everyone is innvolved.

> Is my usage of this wonderfull hardware dependent on my contribution to
> this obviously faulty software?
>

you get what you put in.

-kdf

haunyack
2007-03-06, 09:58
On 5-Mar-07, at 11:44 PM, haunyack wrote:
>
> I understand your point.
> My point, simply - (as other have stated more eloquently than I)
> I have putchased this piece of hardware on good faith.
> Why doesn't it perform as stated?

I'm sure you are aware that not everything works 100%, 100% of the
time. Given a sample set of a thousand units, there are bound to be
some issues. Getting that one bad one sucks, but it doesn't mean
everything is bad.

> When did I agree to be involved in the evolution of the supporting
> (albeit primitive) software?

when you downloaded it and started using it? everyone is innvolved.

> Is my usage of this wonderfull hardware dependent on my contribution to
> this obviously faulty software?
>

you get what you put in.

-kdf

Not neccesarily.
So - I'm over my rant and I'll continue using 6.3.1 until the truncation bug is identified and "fixed".

Meanwhile let me say that I have seen the effects of global warming here in Oregon.
On Mt. Hood - the Hood glacier completely melted off last summer.
I was raised in the shadow of that mountain and have never seen it so bare.


.

peter
2007-03-06, 10:19
haunyack wrote:
> kdf;186010 Wrote:
>
>> On 5-Mar-07, at 11:44 PM, haunyack wrote:
>>
>>> I understand your point.
>>> My point, simply - (as other have stated more eloquently than I)
>>> I have putchased this piece of hardware on good faith.
>>> Why doesn't it perform as stated?
>>>
>> I'm sure you are aware that not everything works 100%, 100% of the
>> time. Given a sample set of a thousand units, there are bound to be
>> some issues. Getting that one bad one sucks, but it doesn't mean
>> everything is bad.
>>
>>
>>> When did I agree to be involved in the evolution of the supporting
>>> (albeit primitive) software?
>>>
>> when you downloaded it and started using it? everyone is innvolved.
>>
>>
>>> Is my usage of this wonderfull hardware dependent on my contribution
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> this obviously faulty software?
>>>
>>>
>> you get what you put in.
>>
>> -kdf
>>
>
> Not neccesarily.
> So - I'm over my rant and I'll continue using 6.3.1 until the
> truncation bug is identified and "fixed".
>
> Meanwhile let me say that I have seen the effects of global warming
> here in Oregon.
> On Mt. Hood - the Hood glacier completely melted off last summer.
> I was raised in the shadow of that mountain and have never seen it so
> bare.
>

Better start building new nuclear plants, then...

Regards,
Peter

haunyack
2007-03-06, 10:34
Let me guess...open source?

.

Pale Blue Ego
2007-03-06, 15:16
On Mt. Hood - the Hood glacier completely melted off last summer. I was raised in the shadow of that mountain and have never seen it so bare.

That's a shame - my one trip to Oregon was to The Dalles/Hood River area. Very, very beautiful, with lots of snow on Mts. Hood and Adams even in August.

Please don't discount the idea that the warming is largely solar or cyclical. Sure, it's handy to rail at big, smelly SUVs and their owners - shaking your fist at the sun is a lot less satisfying.

Also, keep in mind that all of our manmade pollution can pale in comparison to a natural event like St. Helens erupting. Mama Nature sometimes does a good job of screwing up the atmosphere all by herself.

peter
2007-03-07, 05:55
Pale Blue Ego wrote:
> haunyack;186012 Wrote:
>
>> On Mt. Hood - the Hood glacier completely melted off last summer. I was
>> raised in the shadow of that mountain and have never seen it so bare.
>>
>
> That's a shame - my one trip to Oregon was to The Dalles/Hood River
> area. Very, very beautiful, with lots of snow on Mts. Hood and Adams
> even in August.
>
> Please don't discount the idea that the warming is largely solar or
> cyclical. Sure, it's handy to rail at big, smelly SUVs and their
> owners - shaking your fist at the sun is a lot less satisfying.
>
> Also, keep in mind that all of our manmade pollution can pale in
> comparison to a natural event like St. Helens erupting. Mama Nature
> sometimes does a good job of screwing up the atmosphere all by herself.
>

Screwing up suggests a moral aspect in the behaviour of 'nature'. There
isn't of course (unless you're notanatheist). The problem with global
warming if it exists is that it may lead to a world that is less
habitable for humans. Mama Nature won't care if we suffer, but we
ourselves probably will...

Regards,
Peter

jeffmeh
2007-03-07, 06:33
OK, I know that I committed the original mistake of jestfully invoking the name of Al Gore, but I kindly suggest that there are better fora in which to engage in debates over global warming.

MrSinatra
2007-03-08, 13:27
OT:

can someone point me to the solar data that was mentioned earlier?

i had heard something similar, that the alignment of the other planets gently affects our otherwise mostly circular orbit, and that currently, this alignment has moved us closer to the sun, thus the increase.

30 years ago it was "another ice age." now its this.

imo, its all just a way to handcuff capitalism.

another fact i had heard is that the atmosphere loses a huge unimaginable amount of itself, (gases), to outerspace every day, and yet even at that this huge rate, the Sun will go supernova long before the atmosphere runs out for human needs.

besides, the SB is green. look at the screen. reminds me of DOS 1.0

bklaas
2007-03-08, 13:42
OT:
imo, its all just a way to handcuff capitalism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

MrSinatra
2007-03-08, 13:46
yes, 1000 lashes! for obviously i am the one who soiled this thread!

look, i meant my post only in good humor and i do want the info i asked for. also, the original topic is long since dead and i clearly marked my post "Off Topic"

its not easy, being green.

Ben Sandee
2007-03-08, 14:21
On 3/8/07, MrSinatra <
MrSinatra.2n58nz1173385802 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
>
> OT:


No kidding.

imo, its all just a way to handcuff capitalism.


Why am I not surprised.

MrSinatra
2007-03-08, 15:14
pot calling the kettle black, isn't it ben?

u had nothing to say of relevance to the slimtray thread that "no one cared about" but me.

difference here is this orig topic is over, that one wasn't.

my humblest apologies all for being the 30th off topic post in this thread. clearly, i alone should be scuttled for it. but like i said, i just wanted a link to the solar info. please ignore any other comments i made, as if u disagree thats 100% fine by me.

peter
2007-03-09, 04:19
MrSinatra wrote:
> OT:
>
> can someone point me to the solar data that was mentioned earlier?
>
> i had heard something similar, that the alignment of the other planets
> gently affects our otherwise mostly circular orbit, and that currently,
> this alignment has moved us closer to the sun, thus the increase.
>
> 30 years ago it was "another ice age." now its this.
>
Or acid rain or the hole in the ozone layer.

> imo, its all just a way to handcuff capitalism.
>

That's always a factor for some people, undoubtedly and makes it hard to
decide where the truth lies.

I figure we should reduce pollution anyway and move to nuclear energy.

Regards,
Peter

jeffmeh
2007-03-09, 07:07
Trying hard not to post so as not to violate my own suggestion....

MrSinatra
2007-03-09, 14:19
That's always a factor for some people, undoubtedly and makes it hard to
decide where the truth lies.

I figure we should reduce pollution anyway and move to nuclear energy.

Regards,
Peter

yes, i completely agree. i don't think anyone is pro pollution, so regardless of the debate, we all can be in favor of reducing pollution. the only Q is how drastically or how far do we want to go financially doing so? its not just spending to clean up, but restrictions which may impede too harshly normal productivity.

in any case, i guess the guy who was talking about the solar report isn't following the thread anymore. c'est la vie.

Pale Blue Ego
2007-03-09, 22:42
in any case, i guess the guy who was talking about the solar report isn't following the thread anymore. c'est la vie.

I had abandoned the thread, since I was scolded for being OT and didn't mean to hijack it. But since there is interest (and the original thread was about green practices relating to SB), here are some links:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/pluto.html

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v428/n6985/abs/nature02470.html

http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/sun/hyperactive_sun/sun_fuels_debate_on_climate_change.html

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002242.html