TS 101 Internals? [Archive] - Squeezebox : Community : Forums

roamingstudio

2006-09-19, 08:47

Dear All,

I was wondering if anyone knows the internals of the TS101? Im very tempted to get one (been delayed due to work committments + holiday) - but also need to balance the decision as I would like it to be able to act as a 'subversion' repository and trac / wiki server. This would need to be installed as a service... I believe this is possible but am not sure whether the CPU etc would become cippled by processing requirements?

One other solution is to build my own NAS from Mini-ITX stuff - but I like the idea of using standard prebuilt / designed systems like the TS101. Where I live the cost of a home built Mini-ITX is more than the TS101.

Thanks

funkstar

2006-09-19, 11:18

All NAS units in the same market segment as the TS-101 are going to be pretty limited as far as CPU is concerned. It is powerful enough to decode two RealAudio streams and send them out as FLAC however, so it's not *that* bad :)

The problem for you is that there is no publicly available method of installing software on the TS-101. Obviously it is possible as Progressive hav been able to do it, but you or me cannot do it.

Units like the Synology Diskstation might be a better bet, they have been completely opened up and you can install any software you want on them. I wonder how similar the hardware is to the Qnap TS-101. The boxes are similar and so are their names. Although this could be a coincedance rather than they are based on the same reference hardware :)

roamingstudio

2006-09-26, 00:55

Bit of digging and I found the review on Tomshardware shows some photos. Mentions no UPnP at the time - now updated and included.
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2006/08/11/qnap_ts101_nas_review/page6.html

Freescale PowerQUICC CPU
Silicon Image 3512 Chip for SATA
uPD720101 for USB
Intel 8254OEM for Ethernet....

Paul_B

2006-09-26, 04:15

What is interesting is where is the memory on the board and how can it be upgarded? Is it a case of soldering in another memory module or replacing the existing memory module:

http://images.tomshardware.com/2006/08/11/qnap/qnap_ts101_mb_big.jpg

peterbell

2006-09-26, 06:15

I would think that the memory is the two 'PSC' chips, just left of centre. It looks as though the board is layed out to take another couple of chips.

roamingstudio

2006-09-26, 06:28

The PSC chips are listed as
A2Y56580BY?
or
A24565420TP

Looking up google stuff... there is a reference to a DDR400 512MB chip (APACER) from PSC with part number
A2S56D30ATP-3049LA0A-5

Hey that looks similar... I wonder?.... Could be DDR or SDRAM. The second line is important.
Its a bit hard to read (even when rotated 180deg)

The link to PSC home page in case others want to experiment...
http://www.psc.com.tw/english/index.jsp

There also appears to be space for either compact flash or mini-pci slot... The white rectangular U shape. Would need to check the footprint architecture - but wifi was (is?) an option once... Certainly it has 2x61+1 pins making it a candidate for the Mini-PCI III 124 pin card. Checking with Molex (www.molex.com - part 67315-0011) the footprint is correct for the mini-pci card. There are two formats - 4mm pitch and 5.2mm pitch - but cannot see which is correct from the photo.

Paul_B

2006-09-26, 07:33

I'll let you play first roamingstudio

peterbell

2006-09-26, 09:24

Yep, I was looking at that big socket outline and wondering what it was for. I also note that there is a 2x8 IDC type socket pinout at the top of the board. Is this for a JTAG interface, or is there some other expansion opportunity?

funkstar

2006-09-26, 11:21

Interesting stuff. That pic saves me opening my own unit :)

Shame surface mount soldering isn't my speciality...

roamingstudio

2006-09-26, 12:10

The C shape does not appear to be compact flash - that is a 50 pin unit. So much more likely mini-pci.

The through pin nature of the 8x2 pins is very similar to IDC connectors. But for a drive?... Floppy IDC is normally 34 pin - although most of those are GND - and only 15 transmit signals.

IDE for disk drives tend to be at least 40 pin... and parallel normally more than 15.

Most likely it is either JTAG (of some form) or possibly serial (RS232 or similar).

Pity there is no picture of the other side of the board - there could still be some hidden SMD pins.

Soldering your own SMD memory is likely to be tuff - and I would suggest following Progressive's lead about getting memory upgrades (if possible). It does not stop the teccy savie doing something though; and the article provided a nice (if now broken?) way of running scripts on the QNAP as administrator (although installing something new is different!). Ill update here when I have a chance (probably not until mid October).

Fifer

2006-09-26, 12:34

If you have a steady hand and a good soldering iron with a fine bit, soldering SMD chips isn't too hard.

bonze

2006-09-26, 15:01

Do we know what chips are required for a memory upgrade?
I have a couple of mates who might be able to do the swap for me :)

funkstar

2006-09-27, 01:09

It would be good to find out the maximum configuration that the hardware and OS can handle. I'm guessing that if you are going to pay someone to do the work, their time will excede the cost of the parts, so you may as well spend a little extra and never have to upgrade the memory again :)

roamingstudio

2006-10-02, 03:24

Ok a small parcel arrived this morning with my new 101. Before installing hard disk etc; I decided to take a quick peak at the circuit boards... Photos were taken but wont fit on this board; PM me if interested.

I removed the SN and Mac address details. The first obvious thing - there is a MiniPCI connector placed on the board. Yippeeee! Would probably need a modification of firmware to get it working - and I wonder how many other people have one? To check - just slide open the case; and look under the circuit board (no need to remove any internal screws - you can see from the side). If there is a big white / cream coloured lump of plastic - then it is likely to be the connector.

The chips are following:
2x PSC A2V56S40BTP; 518ALA00 [Main Memory]
1x S29GL128N11TF101; 0508ABA H; Spansion [SDRAM Memory - TSOP54 package]
1x MPC8241LVR266D; 4K78P; QQKU0528 [CPU]
1x NEC D720101GJ; 0529PPA72 [USB]
1x Intel RC8254OEM; 0503; FG31301.1 [GB Ethernet]
1x Silicon Image Satalink Si I3512ECTU128; QB2170.1-4; 0523 AD03AX2 [SATA]
1x PIC16F627A; 0430360 [Firmware?]

The SDRAM is in TSOP54 (54 pin) configuration - which would appear to be 133MHz speed (but I cannot confirm this). It may exist in Kingston Memory : KVR133X64SC3. Certainly Micron appear to make compatible memory - same footprint (TSOP54) and all listed at PC100 and PC133 Speed. Sizes of 64MB, 128MB and 256MB. *perhaps* possible to upgrade a lot - but I suspect it also depends on the MPC.

Interestingly there is still space for another two Ram chips; but laid out differently from Tomshardware version. This could support hypothesis that the chips can be 'mixed' easily? There is also a spare connector point for a fan should it be needed. On the back of the black case is also an empty soctket (covered with a rubber seal). I wonder if this is where a small antenna could sit if installing a mini-pci W-Lan card.

No time to check to see if it all works - I need to do my day job!

roamingstudio

2006-10-03, 10:12

Posting some more updates so it is flagged...

Info on the Freescale MPC can be found at http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8241&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8655

RISC either 133 or 266 MHz core. Supports SDRAM at 133 MHz upto 2GB. Yep 2GB. Now that *would* be great!.

Memory Interface... Supports one to eight banks of 16-, 64-, 128, 256 or 512Mbit DRAM

We have four banks - maxed out at 256MB would be 1GB... :)
The equivalent Micron memory chips from sell for <10 GBP from Farnell. Im seriously tempted to try this; although Im not sure if there are other changes which could be required on the board.

The only thing which does stand out is that the original Memory chips *could* be discontinued. Certainly on one site from a good search the D/C tag was Oct 04.

funkstar

2006-10-03, 15:14

How odd. It states that is supports 2GB (i'm assuming this is gigabytes), yet only 8 banks with 512Mbits in each. That works out at a maximum of 512MBytes. It would need to support 2GBit chips to get the full 2GB.

Given there are two memory chips and two free spaces, i'm assuming we have a maximum of 4 banks in the TS-101. with a maximum chip support of 512Mbit that gives us 512MByte maximum installable memory. Without removing what is already there, we can have a maximum of 192MB (adding two 512MBit chips giving a 128MByte upgrade)

Some way off the maximum of 2GB supported, but still three times what is already in there.

EDIT: Just remembered. I opened my TS-101 today to remove the drive (migrating SlimServer and my library to a HTPC). It doesn't have the MiniPCI socket installed. There is a hole and rubber plug for the aerial, but without further mods, no way to add wireless.

roamingstudio

2006-10-04, 03:21

Checking the manuals again to work out the conundrum... :)

MPC CPU...
One to 8 banks of 16, 64, 128, 256 or 512 MBit memory devices

Micron SDRam Configurations
– 16 Meg x 4 (4 Meg x 4 x 4 banks) 16M4
– 8 Meg x 8 (2 Meg x 8 x 4 banks) 8M8
– 4 Meg x 16 (1 Meg x 16 x 4 banks) 4M16

Im guessing the banks do not refere to the physical space on the board; but rather the configuration of the SDRAM chips.

256MB can then be formed from 16M16; 32M8
128MB from 4M32; 8M16; 16M8;
64MB can be formed from 2M32; 4M16;

I will play with some of the 256MB options

roamingstudio

2006-10-11, 03:02

Paul_B

2006-10-11, 04:01

My board is the older style with no MiniPCI socket

roamingstudio

2006-10-11, 04:34

Most of the older boards have the place for the socket. It is a 124 Pin Mini PCI. E.g.
Molex 67315-0011 (4mm high) or 67391-0011 (5.2mm high);
Tyco Electronics 1734835-1 (6.7mm), 1734835-2 (6.7mm), 1734069-3 (6.7mm), 1734661-1 (5.6mm) and 1734027-3 (6.00mm)

The higher ones provide more air cooling space for lower memory chips. The 6.2mm is about the one installed on my TS101.

peterbell

2006-10-11, 17:47

Update: 11/10/06
QNAP have claimed at the Mini PCI feature is not yet enabled in the firmware. If the board has a Mini PCI slot then it is a new board version and more announcements will follow in the future. Whether old boards can be retrofitted with the correct slot is still unknown.
Bother! I've just taken the lid off my TS-101 (purchased at the beginning of September), and there's no Mini PCI connector. :(

roamingstudio

2006-10-14, 07:33

Anyone noticed the similarities between TS101 and Kurobox? The TS101 has different ethernet, IDE (not sata) but otherwise looks fairly similar!. However there are some great add-ons for the kurobox... which could be used on your TS101...

Also the USB chip is the same - it may therefore be possible to enable internal USB for a flash drive - check out http://www.kurobox.com/mwiki/index.php/Add_USB_Port. The TS101 appears to use ports 1,2,5 - so 3 and 4 are free.

Looking closely at my board there are 5 through pins just south below the SATA connector. Is this a serial port? The middle pin is appears not to be connected; the others head towards the PIC controller... but I forgot my trusty DMM to check pinouts. They are also present on the TS201

Just above the SATA connector is a spare port for +5V; GND; GND; +12V for powering hard drives.

There is also a 2x3 header block (female) near this - purpose unknown.

Just below the stacked USB connector is space for a 12V fan - which could even have control capability! (i.e. the bios counts the rotation of the fan).

roamingstudio

2006-10-15, 23:56

Update on whats inside and what can be achieved... a lot of info now appearing on the wiki http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Open_Turbostation:TS101

For those who are interested...
The PIC controller (containing the firmware) can be programmed using an in-circuit-serial-programming (TM) mode - we still have to work out what can be done safely though.

The USB chip has two free ports - which seem to be mounted to pull down resistor only... potentially (and I stress this) allowing extra USB lines... or for those interested; perhaps a way to mount a USB drive internally?

Still no closer to working out what are the memory specs implemented - but I will be trying out some ideas tests this week. Pity we have not heard back from Progessive Paul.

If people are interested in working out / modding the system further please PM me. For example - some of the Kurobox system mods are more than possible.

roamingstudio

2006-10-17, 01:41

We know that the system is configured to output serial - and it would be great to find the port...

Doing a bit of poking it would seem that JP2 2x3 header block (behind the LED1/USB) has a lot of potential (thanks flipflip for the headsup). Assuming you look down on the block and the following layout is used... NOTE We need help to resolve this...

1 2
3 4
5 6

1 = 3.3V; 2 = GND; 3 = N/C; 4 = RX or TX 5 = N/C; 6= RX or TX.
The info from Synology DS106 would indicate that we need a 3.3V TTL serial connector http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddASerialPort.

Does anyone know if connecting TX and RX wrong would brick the system?
Does anyone know what sort of circuits are needed for the serial to operate on a PPC?

flipflip

2006-10-17, 09:24

I would use a MAXIM MAX232 to convert the signal to RS232 levels (+/- 12 VDC). It only needs some external caps (10uF or so) and 5 V supply. See datasheet at maxim-ic.com. An alternative is the DALLAS DS275, although I never used one.

What about attaching LEDs to the TX and RX pins? Shouldn't the one at TX flicker when booting (assuming the kernel really writes something to the serial port)?

flip

bpa

2006-10-17, 09:29

The following is a link for a Serial adaptor for Kuro box which has a PPC v. similar to DS-106/TS-101. IIRC The build detail suggest using a USB-Serial adaptor as the basis as USB signal is about 3.3v.

http://www.larwe.com/technical/kuro_serial.html

roamingstudio

2006-10-18, 04:51

Yep there are a couple of similar links on the nslu2 website; and is my ideal solution. BUT... as did not have a scope handy I used Flipflips suggestion of placing a LED into the pins (long leg to gnd).

During boot the LED lighted when pluged into pin 2;4 and did not light for 2/6. Assuming it is serial, pin 4 is TX and 6 is RX. BUT THIS IS ONLY A GUESS.

I will obtain a cable; wire it and if I get TTY then I will be a happy bunny. This week is a bit busy and I will be out of office a fair bit; so wont have any more time to check thoroughly.

roamingstudio

2006-10-22, 10:04

It has been confirmed (thanks flusk) that JN2 is a serial port, 115200 baud, 8n1 software flow control. Pressing space at start of boot process enables access to U-Boot firmware controller. You need to have a 3V3 (3.3 Volt) RS232 Cable - do not use a 5V control otherwise you will cause damage. Ideally dont connect the +3V3 lines either - just GND, Tx, Rx. Detailed instructors to follow. I hope my serial cable arrives this week and I can progress on memory upgrade routes.

Update: Just discovered that living in Planet Pluto has a disadvantage of 4 week delivery of items; even if your local distributor claims to have cables in stock :(

Paul_B

2006-10-22, 10:28

Roamingstudio you are doing some stirling work, please keep it up and keep us informed

roamingstudio

2006-10-23, 13:43

It appears there are two varients of the TS101 motherboard - one which uses the Intel Gigabit ethernet chips; and one which has the RTL8169SC. Do people have other chip varients? Are they willing to check?

The TS201 uses a RTL8110SCL gigabit controller - but otherwise a similar motherboard to the 101; so varient 3?

Fifer

2006-10-23, 13:54

I'll open mine up tomorrow night r_s.

Paul_B

2006-10-23, 20:16

RS,

How can you check the LAN interface chipset? Let me know and I will open mine up.

Paul

roamingstudio

2006-10-23, 22:00

Dead easy to check the chipsset directly by undoing the 4 screws of HDD cradle; and then the further 4 of the PCB. Flip it over and the chips are visible clearly.

Am not sure whether it really matters that there are two chipsets / layouts - but was curious. For those who have a realtek one - could you check if there are also a pair of holes diagonally placed across the CPU. The TS201 uses these holes to attach a heatsink over the CPU. I dont have them on my board.

flusk

2006-10-24, 01:17

If you don't want to wield a screwdriver try using PHPterm and look at the output from dmesg, or cat /proc/pci.

Paul_B

2006-10-24, 05:55

You know I was wondering if you could get the info through php. I am a Windows user so could easily do this through WMI (Windows Management Instrumentation) and VB / VBScript but no idea with php

roamingstudio

2006-10-24, 06:04

Yep phpterm (google it) will enable you to run command line on the TS101 - but only as guest.

peterbell

2006-10-24, 10:33

My TS-101, purchased at the beginning of September, reports:
e1000: eth0: e1000_probe: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Connection

in dmesg

Fifer

2006-10-24, 11:44

Mine has the Intel Gigabit controller too and no mini PCI socket. It looks identical to the Tom's Hardware picture. Note that there are 6 screws holding the PCB in place, not 4. There are two screws in the centre of the board which hold the ethernet controller, processer and voltage regulator against the heatsink bracket. I added a little more heatsink compound when putting it back together.

I was very impressed by how well the box in engineered. It's a well thought out, robust little beastie.

roamingstudio

2006-10-24, 13:06

I definitely only had four screws - plus the hdd carrier on another four. No heat sink on any of the components. There is a heat sink on the TS201 - but only the CPU.

Fifer

2006-10-24, 13:17

Mine had screws through the PCB holes (outlined in white on the Tom's Hardware photo) at the corners of the processor. They screw into a heatsink/bracket which forms the thermal route from the electronics to the casing. There was thermal heatsink compound ensuring good thermal conductivity between the controller, processor and voltage regulator and the heatsink/bracket. The two extra screws were of the flat pan-headed type used to secure PC motherboards.

roamingstudio

2006-10-24, 13:28

Just checked my photos - vs the one from Toms (first page of this thread). Clearly I dont have the heat sink holes; or indeed paste on any components - but there is a nice Mini-PCI (I will need to install the PCI library at some point).

In terms of layers...

Back of QNAP case.
PCB attached with four screws
HDD mounting attached with four screws
Front of QNAP case

I will take a photo tomorrow - its currently at work waiting for a serial cable so I can check the memory status. Anyway the variations do not matter too much; just interesting. However just a thought... perhaps the different ethernet controllers and their drivers are responsible for some of the strange spin down actions which seem to people with apparently the same configurations?

Fifer

2006-10-24, 13:41

However just a thought... perhaps the different ethernet controllers and their drivers are responsible for some of the strange spin down actions which seem to people with apparently the same configurations?

Good thought ...

roamingstudio

2006-11-03, 09:15

Whilst this forum is excellant for TS101 users working with Slimservers; I also wanted a place where others working with Nas devices can live and work. I therefore created a Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OpenTurbostation - feel free to join.

I, and others will continue to post here and update the wiki; however we feel it is generally better to have another area where non Slimserver based work can be found.

roamingstudio

2007-02-11, 11:50

Just a little update... not had much time to hack the hardware over the past months. However I did get 5 minutes free today to see if my Mini PCI connector worked... which it did (first time). I used my Intel based laptop wifi card; sipped it into the slot and booted. Checked in u-boot and the card is correctly identified - but not initialised (yet - I need to change some U-boot settings).

Within the Linux the on-board network adapter is not initialised as Linux knows nothing about the Wifi (i.e. no driver loaded). As I also had not hooked up the ariels I could not play 'wi-fi qnap'... but it certainly has potential. It certainly seems that in early boards Qnap believed in adding wifi access (it was once listed as an option).

As previously mentioned the mini-pci connector is a SMD soldered part - and probably quite tricky to place manually (not for faint hearted). However im happy to help anyone else who might want to add one to their board (mine was installed by qnap).

RS