View Full Version : Homebuild Slimserver box .. which OS? which spec?
Hi all,
I currently run Slimserver on an Intel iMac but really like the idea of having all my mp3s (for now just music, but maybe video too in the future) on a standalone box.
I've looked at NAS solutions but I'm thinking of maybe building a new PC to do the job for around the same cost but giving me added flexibility.
Which OS am I best off using? I fancy a Linux box as I've always wanted to dabble, but would XP offer better compatability and easier maintenance?
Also what kind of spec am I looking at needing? For now it'll just be running slimserver and maybe host a basic website ..
Thanks!
Adam
Pale Blue Ego
2006-07-20, 11:21
Linux is a good choice for a file server. There is a learning curve for new users, but it isn't too steep for somebody with decent computer skills. And there's a great amount of satisfaction in using Linux.
As far as maintaining it, I think Linux is significantly easier to maintain than Windows. For many situations, a Linux machine can run with zero maint for months or years. And there are good tools such as "apt-get" which will update your operating system AND all your installed programs with one simple command.
Linux also includes server programs that allow you to host a website, FTP server, or mail system.
For a file server, it's probably best to use a modest-sized hard drive with 3 partitions for the OS, swapfile, and home (user) directories, then add a big honkin' drive (or 2) for your media files. If you decide to wipe the OS, or go back to Windows, you can do that without messing with the rest of the system
Any modern CPU will do nicely. 1 GB of RAM should be plenty, but of course more is always better. No need for an expensive video card or soundcard. You could even run headless (no monitor, keyboard or mouse) and log in from your OSX box. You can also use older hardware.
Good luck!
notanatheist
2006-07-20, 23:50
Linux would certainly give you greater advantage. Command line administration is a snap for a few distros. Upgrades/updates often require stopping and restarting a service. Very rarely would you have a need to reboot. My new fileserver has only been on 41 days now but the other day I logged in via SSH, downloaded the latest Slimserver and a couple packages, killed the old slimserver process, installed the new one and watched it automagically restart the process. All this from the comfort of my laptop in the living room and the fileserver in the garage without a keyboard, mouse, and monitor.
As far as recommending a distro... that's a whole other bag of worms. Do a little search. Favored distros tend to be Ubuntu, ClarkConnect, and Fedora Core. I'm running ClarkConnect on my fileserver and I'd say it's very newbie friendly and about right for a machine that is a server only. Ubuntu can be wholly managed from a command line but as a desktop OS it likes to update regularly and require reboots. Do that 1GB of RAM too to reduce any hiccups. My streams almost never miss a beat unless I've got a half dozen torrets uploading of various legal high def stuff and Creative Commons music.
Linux it is then .. I work a lot with AIX at work so it shouldn't be completely foreign to me.
One probably very silly question ... does linux work ok with external USB hard drives ? Ideally I'd like to build something with an internal 40Gb or so HDD and use an existing 300Gb external for the storage.
Thanks!
Adam
If you only want Slimserver and maybe SMB file sharing the SlimCD might do all you need! I can be installed on a HD / USB Stick / USB Harddisk or CF card.
With the SlimCD you would be able to run it on hardware that does not consume a lot of electricity if that is at any concerne.
I have used and old PII box with only 6GB of hard drive with Clarke Connect 3.2 Linux. I have mounted a 250GB USB drive using FAT, which means the drive can easily be moved to my XP box.
I also use SMB file sharing so that new music can be transferred over the network from my XP box on which I do all the ripping.
It is also acts as a NAS drive.
I've had no problems with this setup.
To mount usb:
in root
mkdir /mnt/usb
mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/usb
add the following line to fstab:
/dev/sda1 /mnt/usb vfat rw,exec,user,umask=000 0 0
That's it
Linux is great for this.
If you use LVM for the music lib, then you will never run out of space! It will let you add drives to the volume without bothering that they are on different drives/partition. It won't matter what filesystem or interface they are connected to. So you can you can use internal or external drives or any combination of them. This was my first try of LVM, but not the last. when I have to rebuild my pc one day I'll put it on it.
Linux works fine with USB drives, provided you install the needed modules and add them to the fstab.
Mine runs on a Via Epia with an 800MHz C3. Not a powerhouse but fine if you don't use transcoding. And the HD's use more power than the cpu. Using Gentoo as distro (yes, it took a while to install). The wiki here for gentoo and the scripts worked first time.
Hi everyone lately i have been thinking the same. Been considering NAS VS standalone PC. but now i am leaning over PC as it costs less, faster perfomance, and less effort (NAS requires hacking).
I am planning to get one of those old box as server (no idea how old is the spec perhaps PIII ? 256 RAM ?) any suggestion guys ? the server will be used only for store music and video that i would access from my laptop in the living room, and serve slimserver nothing other fancy features.
i have seen those quiet and small PC form. it seems nice and might be the solution. however i am wandering what OS to install (i have windows xp tweaked edition with minimal driver installed (only 64RAM require) i also have no exp of LINUX although it seems interesting to play with.
my question is will this plan work ? am i better with windows of LINUX (requires me to learn) also how about monitor and keyboard? i hate to place and old looking box with monitor in my bedroom. i was planning to hide the box (forgetting the keyboard, monitor and mouse of course) somewhere in my bedroom
Thanks guys for any solution
Running mine without display, keyboard and mouse. Make sure you can set the bios to neglect all errors at startup (like missing keyboard). I just ssh into the box through the network if I need the OS.
Running mine without display, keyboard and mouse. Make sure you can set the bios to neglect all errors at startup (like missing keyboard). I just ssh into the box through the network if I need the OS.
I'm about to do this very thing with an old Dell Precision workstation and Fedora C5 (which I'm totally new to)
My question, is do I want to hook up the drives to the box before during or after the install of Fedora? Full or empty?
-tim
It doesn't matter when you hook up the drives.
You need at least a single drive to install the OS. You can leave out the other drives if you don't feel sure when installing and want to be certain you don't overwrite something. If you add the drives later, then you will have to add them yourself in the /etc/fstab file. This isn't difficult, and there is a lot of info about it around.
If you add full drives, then you will have to make sure to use a filesystem that is suported. Linux supports lots of filesystems, but writing NTFS is often considered risky. (but there has been a lot of progress lately) However if you want to use one of the linux filesystems, you will have to add them empty (unless they were already in such a filesystem).
It doesn't matter when you hook up the drives.
You need at least a single drive to install the OS. You can leave out the other drives if you don't feel sure when installing and want to be certain you don't overwrite something. If you add the drives later, then you will have to add them yourself in the /etc/fstab file. This isn't difficult, and there is a lot of info about it around.
If you add full drives, then you will have to make sure to use a filesystem that is suported. Linux supports lots of filesystems, but writing NTFS is often considered risky. (but there has been a lot of progress lately) However if you want to use one of the linux filesystems, you will have to add them empty (unless they were already in such a filesystem).
Thank you very much - I was told that if I hook-up/install (internally or externally) the drives first and format them they will appear as all one volume - true? Or will they appear that way if I mount them after the fact?
I've a 20Gb inside my box that I'm installing FC5 on and then a 180 and 300 in external enclosures via firewire. Any concerns?
I formatted them with windows, so I'm guessing their NTFS which means FC5 will not be able to write to them? Hmmm, thats alittle undesirable.
Will I be able to unhook them and take them elsewhere?
Thanks again for the experienced response, I'm in new waters here and want the benfit of everyone's experience before I getr in over my head.
-tim
Emissary
2006-08-16, 11:00
Hi, I think Linux is the way to go if you're willing to experiment a little. Personally I would prefer a debian based distribution (like Ubuntu). I used 5.04/5.10 of Ubuntu for quite some time and a colleague is using Debian Sarge (3.1) and has reported no problems. But the primary factor for choosing a distribution should be as simple as how many people you know who use it. Nothing replaces someone who can be called or come over if you're stuck.
But if you want that little extra fun, do as I did and run Solaris Nevada with a zfs pool to store your music on :)
If you want to take the disks and plug them into other pcs (windows?) I'm afraid to tell you that there is no elegant way to do that. There are ways to mount linux filesystems on windows or to mount windows filesystems (ntfs, fat) on linux.
If you want to run ext2/3 as a filesystem which is considered stable and absolutely ok for a media server I would recommend to create a small fat32 partition on each of the disks and put a tool like
http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm
on that partition. So you always have a tool to access that disk under windows with you :)
Another thing to consider is how valuable your data is to you. From the messages before it seems that you are not using any online data protection (RAID1/5). Do you do backups regularly?
Dominik
I was told that if I hook-up/install (internally or externally) the drives first and format them they will appear as all one volume - true?
They won't appear as a single volume. In fact, the only very visible difference between windows and linux is that linux doesn't know the idea of "drive letters". So if you hook up a drive and format it, then you end up with a single large drive just like under windows. If you have more than one drive, then you end up with several empty drives.
Under linux you just have to partition your drive like under windows. Then you have to format your partition just like under windows. Only you have far more choices in filesystems.
Then comes the difference: under windows you give it a "drive letter", under linux you give it a "mount point". Now a mount point is nothing else than a directory in your "root". (this "root" has nothing to do with the root-user, it is the starting point of your linux install, the "/") You now can mount the partition manually with the "mount" command, or do this automatically at boot using the /etc/fstab file.
I don't have experience with firewire drives, but I guess it will be similar to USB. Most likely they will end up as "SCSI" drives. Meaning they will be known to the system as /dev/sda, /dev/sdb etc. (the partitions are then /dev/sda1 etc)
There has been a lot of progress writing to NTFS. It isn't labelled "experimental" anymore in the kernel I use so, best check with your distro (or the forums of it).
You can unhook drives (USB sure, so firewire I guess will do it also) by first unmounting them! Same as in windows you have to tell the OS to "safely remove hardware" when disconnecting a usb stick. Reason is to make sure all buffers to the disk are flushed. If they can be read on windows will depend on the filesystem used.
Another thing to consider is how valuable your data is to you. From the messages before it seems that you are not using any online data protection (RAID1/5). Do you do backups regularly?
Well, I don't think the files on my media-server worth a backup. At least I have the CD's to restore it from.
Thanks guys - yeah - the media I have is live music, which is I have burnt to CD and I may burn everything to DVD before I get started.
My buddy recomends Fedora 5, which sounds like it has a scanning problem with the latest version of SS but I won't be adding music that often so it may not matter to me.
ughhh - while I was transferring some data to my new 300Gb seagate drive I realized I formatted it as NFTS so i unplugged it (with out cancellin or anything) and now the drive can be read.
not too smart, am I - there goes that idea.
Be sure to check out the thread I started about Perl performance issues in FC5. You'll want to avoid upgrading the version of Perl from the one that's initially installed.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=25559
OK, I built my box :)
It's running ClarkConnect and I already have SS installed and working from the internal HDD.
I'd like to add a 300GB external USB drive to the box ....
I've mounted it and can read/write to it under Linux but when I share it and access it via windows file sharing on my mac I cannot copy files to the drive.
When I 'fdisk -l' the drive under X it shows it as being HPFS/NTFS which I'm guessing is the issue as Mac OS X can't write to NTFS partitions. How do I reformat the drive as something like the root drive? What FS does CC use by default?
I can share and write to other shares on the Linux box just fine via the Mac.
Cheers!
Adam
OK, I built my box :)
It's running ClarkConnect and I already have SS installed and working from the internal HDD.
I'd like to add a 300GB external USB drive to the box ....
I've mounted it and can read/write to it under Linux but when I share it and access it via windows file sharing on my mac I cannot copy files to the drive.
When I 'fdisk -l' the drive under X it shows it as being HPFS/NTFS which I'm guessing is the issue as Mac OS X can't write to NTFS partitions. How do I reformat the drive as something like the root drive? What FS does CC use by default?
I can share and write to other shares on the Linux box just fine via the Mac.
Cheers!
Adam
See my previous post #6 in this thread. I used a USB drive which was partly formatted to VFAT which CC3.2 could read natively. Occasionally I get problems with file/folder permissions when modifying and copying across SMB share in windows. (I use XP)
Check that the permissions are correct for rw. As I understand it Samba doesn't care about the file system types. CC uses ext3 by default.
More good info - thanks guys - keep it coming.
Okay - I'm gonna document my progress this week as I back up my old win2k machine and wipe it clean and install Fedora(red hat) and try to get it working as a network files server and music machine for the squeezebox house.
I got my 300Gb drive working again and formatted it as a Linux EXT3 drive. I then used a little utility to read/write to it from win2k and xp - here's the link... (i think)
http://www.chrysocome.net/explore2fs
So I added all my FLACs to that drive and now I think I can begin the installation, however, once I added the files, switched to another pc and added files from there, I wasn't able to read that drive again with either pc. I'm assume that drive will be readable once I have Fedora up and running, but you know what they say about assumptions.
-tim
rrnwexec
2006-08-22, 11:26
I'm about to do this very thing with an old Dell Precision workstation and Fedora C5 (which I'm totally new to)
My question, is do I want to hook up the drives to the box before during or after the install of Fedora? Full or empty?
-tim
The drives can be added later. When you plug them in FC5 should auto-detect and mount them on your desktop, provided that they are formatted.
Cheers,
Randall
The drives can be added later. When you plug them in FC5 should auto-detect and mount them on your desktop, provided that they are formatted.
Cheers,
Randall
Sounds good - now I formatted the USB drive as EXT3 and added 200Gb of flacs to it - that won't cause any problems will it? It will just mount it and the exsisting data will remain.
Thanks TONS for the tips guys - I'm a little clueless and have been reading everything I can get my hands on.
tim
now this....
I have been trying to install Fedora Core 5 and my bios won't seem to boot from the discs, cd or dvd.
I'm a little stumped - i can take screen shots of the bios settings, but all you do is specify the drive to boot from and turn the C: off, right?
You have to make sure that the cd/dvd is the first boot device. If you made it bootable and removed C:, then if you don't put in a bootable cd/dvd it should not boot at all.
Next, are the cd/dvd's bootable? Do you have any other bootable cd/dvd to try (like a windows install cd)? See if that works, then you know at least that it are the cd's or the bios setting.
You have to make sure that the cd/dvd is the first boot device. If you made it bootable and removed C:, then if you don't put in a bootable cd/dvd it should not boot at all.
Next, are the cd/dvd's bootable? Do you have any other bootable cd/dvd to try (like a windows install cd)? See if that works, then you know at least that it are the cd's or the bios setting.
I have deselected the Floppy and Hard Drive in the Dell Bios Boot Sequence, with no luck. I was reading online.. it may have to do with the jumper settings (I put in a new CD burner and DVD burner) or some osrt of cable select issue - but it would boot from ONE of the two, wouldn't it. One of them has to be the master.
I am goin to try another boot discs for another OS and see how that goes - if I can find it. Thanks guys and girls.
notanatheist
2006-08-23, 18:36
Did you download and burn the ISO files for FC5 yourself? What software did you burn with? If you're burning from Windows here's a few solutions to burning ISO files.
If you have Roxio Easy CD, just double click the ISO and it should be associated already and start burning.
With Nero, (preferably Nero burning ROM) choose "Burn Image" in one of the drop down menus and find your ISO.
There is also a free tool called ISOrecorder for XP that you can download. Just do a Google search for it.
Did you download and burn the ISO files for FC5 yourself? What software did you burn with? If you're burning from Windows here's a few solutions to burning ISO files.
If you have Roxio Easy CD, just double click the ISO and it should be associated already and start burning.
With Nero, (preferably Nero burning ROM) choose "Burn Image" in one of the drop down menus and find your ISO.
There is also a free tool called ISOrecorder for XP that you can download. Just do a Google search for it.
I used burning ROM and burned the image file - i'm pretty sure thats not it, but thank you for the ideas.
As soon as I can (bachelor party this weekend) I'll double check the Boot Sequence with another OS boot disc - where do i get one? - and I might play with the jumper settings. I think I'll avoid upgrading the BIOS.
tim
See my previous post #6 in this thread. I used a USB drive which was partly formatted to VFAT which CC3.2 could read natively. Occasionally I get problems with file/folder permissions when modifying and copying across SMB share in windows. (I use XP)
Check that the permissions are correct for rw. As I understand it Samba doesn't care about the file system types. CC uses ext3 by default.
Figured it out .. user error :(
.. /mnt/usb had wrong file permissions, didn't twig as I used the webconfig to create the other shared directories.
Thanks!
Adam
notanatheist
2006-08-26, 00:06
tscales,
pop the CDrom in your Windows box and make sure you can see all the data files on it and not just one big *.iso. Sounds like you did it right but better safe than sorry.
tscales,
pop the CDrom in your Windows box and make sure you can see all the data files on it and not just one big *.iso. Sounds like you did it right but better safe than sorry.
Yup - I see all the folders and files on the DVD and the CDs - but all I get when I boot from either drive is "F1 to Retry, F2 to change user settings"
notanatheist
2006-09-02, 01:20
Sounds like a corrupted download then. Have you tried any other distros? If you know your optical drive boots then I'd download the ISO again.
Sounds like a corrupted download then. Have you tried any other distros? If you know your optical drive boots then I'd download the ISO again.
Yeah - I tired the DVD and CDs with no luck booting. I'm convinced it the master/slave setting on the drives, but I haven't had time to mess with the jumpers. Hopefully this weekend.
Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. I seem to be a magnet for hardware and software conflicts and finding even the rarest of gliches and bugs, so I'm sure they'll be plenty more info on my install of FC5.
For what its worth...
I'm gonna try booting Fedora from floppys instead of messing with my hardware jumper settings. Thoughts?
http://www.thisiscool.com/fcfloppy.htm
It was no easy trick for me to create bootable floppys (6) from the ISO images in the *.bzp file.
I am also a little curious if this will be the full install or if this gets the DVD going.
notanatheist
2006-09-06, 23:36
It'd be quicker to just unplug the IDE cable from one of the optical drives. If you want to be adventurous(?) do a network install of Debian via floppy.
It'd be quicker to just unplug the IDE cable from one of the optical drives. If you want to be adventurous(?) do a network install of Debian via floppy.
Thats good thinkin - just unplug it and then I wouldn't have to mess with the jumpers at all, in theory.
Hmm - thanks. I'll give it a try as soon as my life calms down.
-tim
Well - I think it was a slave/master thing that prevented me from booting from the CD/DVD but i found 6 floppys that got me started then I used the CDs to finish the install of Fedora Core 5. (wooohoo)
So I was working on getting it configured and dialed in - this site was VERY helpful with certain aspects - great step by step code/instructions...
http://www.stanton-finley.net/fedora_core_5_installation_notes.html
So now its time to add the drives (or mount them) I was able to find my internal 180Gb NTFS drive in the Logical Volume app and was also able to mount it (I did add support for NTFS drives before hand though) The external 300Gb is being difficult. It seems to keep going into some 'safe mode' when I power it up - it works maybe like once or twice a day, and during those periods I haven't been able to get it mounted.
I'm gonna explore CC and see what that brings to the table
I have been using commands like...
/dev/sda1 /mnt/music_drive ext3 ro,defaults,umask=0222 0 0
/dev/sdb1 /mnt/music_drive ext3 auto,users 0 0
This week, I hope to get Samsba working so I can see these drives across the network - if anyone has any good reading for me, please fire away.
-tim
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